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M35 early Timken vs Rockwell differences

SETOYOTA

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I have a 1953 m108 2,5 ton crane. It has the early timken axles. I’m in the middle of servicing the front axle. When I removed the hub I expected to find the early ball /claw axle shafts . However I found the later style u joint type shaft . I know the inner seal retainer is different for the differing shafts . My question is how are they different? I’m wondering if I have the proper inner seal retainer since it appears my axle shaft was changed to the u joint style. Or is it possible a timken branded axle coukd have come with the u joint style axle shafts?
Here is a pic of the removed retainer. just want to make sure I have the correct retainer.
 

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rustystud

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Those shafts where interchangeable. You would find different military units having some axles with the old ball and trunnion style and some with the modern 'U'-joint style. I believe the older style is actually stronger than the U-joint style. There is a company making the ball and trunnion style for heavy duty applications. Costs a fortune though.
 

SETOYOTA

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Thanks for the reply. I know the shafts are interchangeable. But I believe the inner seal retainers are different. I think I may have a inner seal retainer for the ball and trunnion shaft.
 

gringeltaube

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I know the shafts are interchangeable. But I believe the inner seal retainers are different.
That's correct. Let me find my post about it...



Meanwhile....
Yes, the seal retainers for both early style, CV-joint axle shafts have an integral rim, with a copper/brass thrust washer (P/N 7521763), press-fitted to it.
The U-joint shafts come with their own steel spacer/washer, pressed-on behind the yoke. So the seal carriers for the latter are just a plane face, with no extra washer.
Old style, w.thrust washer.jpg Old vs. new, outside.jpg Seal retainer, difference 006.jpg 6mm difference!.jpg

By turning them on the lathe one can easily convert the early style retainers to fit the U-joint shafts.
converted, w.seal installed.jpg

In your case, that wasn't done obviously, since you still have the stock (old style) retainer. Instead, someone took a shortcut and simply removed that steel collar/washer from the shaft. (Which is not how it's supposed to work...!)
1658503049072.png
 
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SETOYOTA

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In your case said:
873763[/ATTACH]
Thank you very much. That answers my question. I suppose I will run with what I have then. Maybe it won’t leak or could have been my problem to begin with. I do have a parts truck that should have u joint style shaft I can use if this leaks . I can get the new retainer as well.
What do you think ? Let it ride or go ahead and replace it all?
 

gringeltaube

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What do you think ? Let it ride or go ahead and replace it all?
While you are in, there...
  1. Replace that inner axle shaft; find one that is complete, WITH washer (!);
  2. Check the surface of the shaft for wear, where the seal lip rides;
  3. Get the correct seal retainer - or modify the existing;
  4. Replace the oil seal.
 

SETOYOTA

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I should have everything needed in my parts truck . Wish I had inquired before I started putting it back together. I put the seal and shaft together 2 days ago. Will post what I find in the other side.
 

SETOYOTA

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I was able to remove the retainers and axle shafts from my donor vehicle. Also got the new pads and wheel cylinders while I was end there. Modified a big puller with a homemade end to pull all the retainers. At some point in time someone really boogered up the housing on the driver’s side. I think it was the first attempt to make the u-joint shafts work with the older retainers. Who knows? Hopefully I can get all back together next week or so.
 

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