5 ton Buying tips-Help for Newbies-What to look for and what to be prepared to fix.

slapshot61 · Dec 7, 2013

Gunzy · Dec 7, 2013

Well, 2 and 3 tend to be personal preferences. Me, I stay away from CTIS, prefer 11.00X20s, like the NHC250 over the turbo 6CTA. But that's me, others will differ in their view.

Carlo · Dec 7, 2013

I have A1's and A2's. I can give you pros and cons with both. I love the CTIS on my A2s but I've heard many people having problems with them. I also love the turbo on the A2's but hate the lag. I love the torque right off the line on the A1 but can live with less of its noise. Everyone can find pros and cons on these trucks and that's some of the fun collecting them.

BKubu · Dec 7, 2013

Make sure you inspect. Assume you will have work to do no matter how nice the truck looks...and possibly especially with the rebuilt trucks. I am not going to divert this thread by posting horror stories that I and others have stated, but I will summarize those posts by saying that there were problems that should not have been there on a truly rebuilt truck.

slapshot61 · Dec 7, 2013

What are specific items we should all inspect during a preview?

slapshot61 · Dec 7, 2013

Is there a way to make this a sticky and we all build on this post with details based on our experiences? That way this becomes more of a checklist/resource list for users?
Example would be:

1) Engine type xxxx
a) the occurs often
b) test this.....

2) Engine non turbo type xxx
a) things normally replaced are
i) .............
ii) ....................... cost is $400
iii) how to ............
b) expect to.........

3) Allison Transmission
a) check the ......
b) replace the ......

4) Replacing Cargo Tarps

5) Changing tires and the necessary tools
a) Link to tools list
b) Link to TM to change tire

Is this already out there? Or can we build this together? I realize there is a whole library of TM's, often there do not contain real world experience and short cuts or telltale tips to recognize what is about to go wrong. I absolutely know there are many perspectives, but there is always consistent procceses and issues between most of the same style tucks. When I had a BMW a while ago, I joined a forum and they had a sticky I really gained a ton of information without having to search for hours to find pertinent information and gave me great resources to solve or be prepared for issues based on the age and miles of my car.

Another Ahab · Dec 7, 2013

I got a Deuce (not a 5-ton), but I like where this is going.

Maybe someday it'll be a template for all vehicles in the SteelSoldiers inventory (Deuce's included).

Subscribed.

BKubu · Dec 7, 2013

slapshot61 said:
What are specific items we should all inspect during a preview?

Have you ever heard someone say that it is better to see a truck/car/boat/etc. before the owner did his quickie restoration job on it thereby hiding the truck's/car's/boat's/etc. flaws? Well, that is the problem with inspecting a rebuilt truck. EVERYTHING looks good. Check out the motors. They look new. Quite often, they are not. I got a rebuilt truck that had a valve tap. I have a "rebuilt" M934 with a RRAD "rebuilt" motor that has a blown head gasket on a motor that has fewer than 200 miles on it. In another thread, a poster mentions looking at a truck that was rebuilt in 2010; it already has a bad air compressor on it. The radiator in my "rebuilt" M923A2 LOOKED new; it was not. It was just painted. I've had alternators go bad that looked new because they got a coat of new paint. The best things about the rebuilt trucks are the new parts they put on them like wiring, seat cushions, insulation under the hood, insulation in the cab, etc.

Inspecting a non-rebuilt truck is a lot easier because those trucks have not gotten painted recently so you can see flaws. Check the fuel. Does it smell fresh? If so, it is a good sign. Check the oil. Is it full? Good. Overfull? Might be bad, but note that a dipstick on a 5 ton WILL READ overfull if the truck has not been run recently (it will probably be about an inch overfull on the dipstick). Check the coolant. Does it look clean? When you cracked the cap on the overflow tank, did it make a "pffft" sound? Good. The cooling system is holding pressure. Does the truck start? Does it look like it was serviced recently? Filters often have dates on them. How do the belts look? Fairly fresh? Good. How do the pulleys look? If they are rusty, the truck might have been sitting for a while. If they are clean, that could be a sign that the truck was run recently. Are tall grass and plants growing up around the truck? Might be a sign the truck was sitting for a while. That's a start.

camoyj7 · Dec 7, 2013

Also check to see if it's stuck in 6x6. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?83799-M939-transfer-case-air-lines-installed-wrong

slapshot61 · Dec 8, 2013

this is good info. are our government paid employees that work on these trucks that uncaring or is it a middle man that is cleaning it up enough to make it passable? I do and will always inspect the truck before I bid, and I guess instead of just starting it up with some topical inspection, need to rip open everything.

I thought our "employees" would take care of them slightly better than what you detailed.

slapshot61 · Dec 8, 2013

how can we make this happen then??

slapshot61 · Dec 8, 2013

should I get a copy of thje sticky from the BMW forum to help us visualize what I am looking to develop?

slapshot61 · Dec 8, 2013

Here are some example that although they are website, can be made into a thread easily the last one will demo the thread style

http://www.bimmerdiy.com/dir/e39
http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/Tip_and_Tricks_Inspection.html

this last one combines many links....
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165198

doghead · Dec 8, 2013

Please do not post the same thing in multiple threads.

Also, be aware that we do enforce a rule that requests members capitalize.

It might be good of you to read for the next month or so, the years of threads we have covering all of what your talking about.

Then you yourself could create a helpful thread that might be considerer for a "sticky".

Quite honestly, one more sticky is not going to help much, in my opinion.

You can't learn all you need to know, for every aspect of the MV hobby from a forum or a list of stickys.

Another Ahab · Dec 8, 2013

Great stuff.

And wouldn't you know it?

Of course it's all sensible, no-nonsense, and well organized: it's based on German (BMW) engineering.

slapshot61 · Dec 8, 2013

this is a good example of what I am looking for

slapshot61 · Dec 8, 2013

Well, I will certainly be happy to condense any link to a single post anyone sends me and will categorize it as needed.

Start sending and I will start searching too.

quickfarms · Dec 8, 2013

During a preview all you can really do is a walk around inspection. You look for any obvious leaks, broken parts and check the fluids such as the oil, trans, coolant.

I prefer to have the vehicles hauled rather than attempting to drive an unknown vehicle.

Once the vehicle us at the shop. The first task is a full pretrip and inspection including all fluids.

If no issues are found then the vehicle is started.

If issues are found then a determination is made on when they need to be addressed. Fuel issues are addressed first, some vehicles the fuel is ok but we have also found vehicles with algae in the tanks, this required the tanks to be drained, removed and cleaned. Bad fuel can damage the injector pump or injectors, one engine was found to need to have the pump and injectors rebuilt due to military trying to start it with bad fuel. The oil is changed before starting for two reasons. First the crud is in the pan and we are looking for any signs of contamination. We have started vehicles with known bad radiators, hoses and belts as long as they did not leak to bad.

Once the vehicle is started all the systems are tested so determine if there are any issues.

After this the issues are addressed by performing a full service and replacing all of the fluids that have not already been replaced.

The brakes are inspected, serviced and adjusted by a DOT certified heavy truck brake mechanic. We usually end up replacing all of the springs.

These vehicles are not a car and need to be driven and treated for what they are a heavy truck.

The training required to get your CDL will teach you how to do a pre trip inspection. It will also teach you how to do the daily test of the air brake system.

The automatic transmission is similar to the transmission in your car but it does not like to be driven that way. The drive setting is great but I still do a fair amount of manual shifting. Allison has a operators manual that is available on line that is a must read item, actually you should read it several times, especially the part on manual shifting.

The wedge brakes are there own animal. The military installed the ABS as an attempt to deal with the flaws in the wedge brakes. Commercial trucks stopped using wedge brakes sometime in the 80's. S cam brakes are far superior to wedge brakes. There are several issues with wedge brakes. The first issue is it is very difficult to get them adjusted properly so that the brakes on each axle apply at the same time. This uneven brake application leads to strange handling of empty trucks and is multiplied on wet pavement or slick surfaces. The next issue us the wedges them selves can stick or rust if the truck us not driven on a daily basis further increasing the first issue. The third major issue is when doing a brake job you must replace everything, backing plate shoes and brake drum, to restore the brakes to there designed braking force.

The brake and transmission related comments are pertinent to the 900 series 5 tons.

Carlo · Dec 9, 2013

quickfarms said:
During a preview all you can really do is a walk around inspection. You look for any obvious leaks, broken parts and check the fluids such as the oil, trans, coolant.

I prefer to have the vehicles hauled rather than attempting to drive an unknown vehicle.

Once the vehicle us at the shop. The first task is a full pretrip and inspection including all fluids.

If no issues are found then the vehicle is started.

If issues are found then a determination is made on when they need to be addressed. Fuel issues are addressed first, some vehicles the fuel is ok but we have also found vehicles with algae in the tanks, this required the tanks to be drained, removed and cleaned. Bad fuel can damage the injector pump or injectors, one engine was found to need to have the pump and injectors rebuilt due to military trying to start it with bad fuel. The oil is changed before starting for two reasons. First the crud is in the pan and we are looking for any signs of contamination. We have started vehicles with known bad radiators, hoses and belts as long as they did not leak to bad.

Once the vehicle is started all the systems are tested so determine if there are any issues.

After this the issues are addressed by performing a full service and replacing all of the fluids that have not already been replaced.

The brakes are inspected, serviced and adjusted by a DOT certified heavy truck brake mechanic. We usually end up replacing all of the springs.

These vehicles are not a car and need to be driven and treated for what they are a heavy truck.

The training required to get your CDL will teach you how to do a pre trip inspection. It will also teach you how to do the daily test of the air brake system.

The automatic transmission is similar to the transmission in your car but it does not like to be driven that way. The drive setting is great but I still do a fair amount of manual shifting. Allison has a operators manual that is available on line that is a must read item, actually you should read it several times, especially the part on manual shifting.

The wedge brakes are there own animal. The military installed the ABS as an attempt to deal with the flaws in the wedge brakes. Commercial trucks stopped using wedge brakes sometime in the 80's. S cam brakes are far superior to wedge brakes. There are several issues with wedge brakes. The first issue is it is very difficult to get them adjusted properly so that the brakes on each axle apply at the same time. This uneven brake application leads to strange handling of empty trucks and is multiplied on wet pavement or slick surfaces. The next issue us the wedges them selves can stick or rust if the truck us not driven on a daily basis further increasing the first issue. The third major issue is when doing a brake job you must replace everything, backing plate shoes and brake drum, to restore the brakes to there designed braking force.

The brake and transmission related comments are pertinent to the 900 series 5 tons.

its sad but true. A few years ago I bought a M923A2 that had no bondo but black silicone patching the holes. I was so angry I contacted the base in Germany who had thus truck the last 10 years of its life and asked them more info. The staff Sargent told me they don't do much of any maintenance anymore. The body work is done by this Carl Mosler GmbH in Germany. I told him what I found and he asked for photos. He came back saying, please set down all of you weak hearted folks, that the body work was done 6 month before the truck was released for a tune of € 14.890,00 Euros! I'm not a American tax payer but this really p____d me off! He told me a claim would be filled with the Mosler company but I don't know how it finished. This truck had silicone sealer used as bondo. Painted over oblivious rust. Black tape covering rust and painted over. The shame went on and on.
In the end I removed the cab and welded in a new floor, repaired 1/2 the hood, repaired 35% of bed rust as in holes!
Sad.....

Another Ahab · Dec 10, 2013

Carlo said:
its sad but true. A few years ago I bought a M923A2 that had no bondo but black silicone patching the holes. I was so angry I contacted the base in Germany who had thus truck the last 10 years of its life and asked them more info. The staff Sargent told me they don't do much of any maintenance anymore. The body work is done by this Carl Mosler GmbH in Germany. I told him what I found and he asked for photos. He came back saying, please set down all of you weak hearted folks, that the body work was done 6 month before the truck was released for a tune of € 14.890,00 Euros! I'm not a American tax payer but this really p____d me off! He told me a claim would be filled with the Mosler company but I don't know how it finished. This truck had silicone sealer used as bondo. Painted over oblivious rust. Black tape covering rust and painted over. The shame went on and on.
In the end I removed the cab and welded in a new floor, repaired 1/2 the hood, repaired 35% of bed rust as in holes!
Sad.....

Ouch. That's $20,473.00 at the current rate of exchange.

Add another entry to the List of Sucker-Punches Taken by the American Taxpayer.

And what gets me most is BEING one of these taxpayers. I mean after a while it all starts to sting some, you know?!

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