Anyone have a BMP/OT-90?

[IroncladGA]

Thinking about getting one of these. They look like alot of fun, and there's room for the whole family and trips to Costco. Now for the open-ended questions...

Does anyone have one of these or have familiarity with them?

How are they as far as maintenance?

Are spare parts available in the U.S. or do the Europeans have the market cornered?

What kind of heavy equipment do you need to work on these? Not concerned about transporting it, just keeping it running on the farm.

If anyone has one in the southeast and wouldn't mind me dropping by, please let me know.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Boatcarpenter]

I don't know the answers to any of your questions, but they sure look like fun.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDi3kVBpcfI[/media]

 

[Stalwart]

With an all steel track, Costco or any public road is off limits.

 

[msehring]

bmp

Spares have been hard to get, but hoping that is changing. not hard to maintain, a lot of fun to drive.

 

[B3.3T]

Also, oversized width so transport can be expensive.

 

[Augdog1964]

Yep

I own three... BMP-1, BPzV, and OT-90. Hopefully adding a BRM-1k as well. All of these are variants of the BMP design. They are SUPER fast, really neat looking, can take a lot of friends, and as far as armor goes, have lots of room. One issue is the incredible complicated routing of plumbing. Air, fuel, and water is pumped all through the vehicle. Would help to be a plumber as well as a mechanic.

Yes parts are hard to find... still used and desired vehicle. A couple years ago all the units on the market disappeared as we bought them for Afghan and Iraqi armies. However this should mean parts for years to come.

Enjoy your vehicle!

Dave Bane
Augdog1964
BTR-40, BTR-60, BMP-1, BPzV, OT-90, T-34, T-55

 

[Driver_Neil]

I have an OT-90 here in the UK. Compared to it's nearest UK equivalent of that era, the FV432, it is fast, fun and easy to maintain. No sure how it compares to an M113 though - never had a chance to play with one of those.

At the time it was a toss-up between the OT or a CVR(T) - no contest as at 6' tall and of ample build I do not fit CVR(T)'s that easily!!

The advantages of the OT over the BMP are additional shock absorbers on the second set of road wheels (does make a difference off-road) and the smaller turret cuts the weight a bit whilst the lack of autoloader means you can easily enter the turret from the left hand rear door. Downside is there is no turret hatch so the gunner has to exit via the troop compartment!
The turret is not powered but the gearing is light enough to operate easily. It's quite spacious in there without the weaponry installed, the main gun does take up a lot of room though - I "borrowed" one from a dealer in 2008 and was amazed at how much turret space it took up. Mind you - the KVPT is nigh on 6' long and nearly half of that is inside the turret....
If you can drive a car you can drive an OT - they are more or less idiot (conscript?) proof. 5 speed manual box, power steering via a tiller bar and either electric or air start. They can be steered using a single finger - the steering is that light!
The clutch can be sharp - so be warned, never have a person stood less than 6' from the front when moving off - unless you want them having the leading edge of the hull embedded in their teeth! First time in a show arena I almost decapitated the arena marshal who stood up close when signalling the move off.....

Performance-wise the top speed is approx 40 mph, on or off road and the economy is around 4 mpg (Imperial). they are VERY manoeuvrable and it is possible to drift/power slide them......

If you want to use them on-road and all-steel tracks are a problem you can retrofit BMP-2 track pads. A lot of work as the track has to be broken down to individual links and two holes plasma cut to take the mounting bolts. pads are around £16 each here in the UK and there are around 90 required (I forget the exact figure now). Here in the UK that raises the on- road speed to the limit of 20 mph as opposed to the 5 mph for steel tracks.
As B3.3T points out - they are over-width so need to moved on low-loaders here in the UK. Bit of a sore point with me as I contacted the Gov't agency responsible for such things (VOSA) when I bought mine and asked what I needed to do to make it UK road legal - they forget to mention that at 2.9m wide it was too wide for road use as they had changed the rules 9 months earlier! Moral - never trust Gov't agencies!!
To answer the questions then:

How are they as far as maintenance?

Like I said - easy. Provided you have access to either a willing accomplice or a hoist to get the top deck off everything is accessible. 90% of routine maintenance cane done with just the front deck lifted - this is hinged ahead of the swim vane and has a sprung prop to keep it open. This gives you access to the drive-train, brakes, and rear of the I/P for electrical's etc.
This pic should give an idea:

Best thing to do is wander over to eBay and keep an eye on the seller "magnety222" as he sometimes has all the servicing and repair manuals for the BMP-1, 90% are common to the OT-90

Are spare parts available in the U.S. or do the Europeans have the market cornered?

Can't help you there I'm afraid. In the UK there are about 4 main dealers who can source spares. Things like filters etc. are, funnily enough, standard commercial items so no problem there. I would think, apart from weaponry any of the 4 dealers would be more than happy to sell stuff to the US.

On the subject of weapons - the main gun for the OT-90 is the 14.5mm KVPT - I've been trying to source on of these for 3 years now. Not helped by our stupid gun control laws. Co-axial mount is the PKT - I have this fitted (deac of course). The hull mounts - first one on either side is for the PKM squad M/G whilst the remaining three each side and one on the rear door are for the AK-47/Vz-58. All easily available.

What kind of heavy equipment do you need to work on these?/QUOTE]
Not a lot really - a hoist to lift the armoured top deck off occasionally and some very large spanners/sockets is about it. If you can get hold of the track tools for the BMP-1 series then they are an advantage if you need to split the tracks at any time. Track tensioners are inside each rear door thus easy to access, lift out the left hand (viewed from the rear) troop seat and you have full access to the fuel pump and filters.

In summary - the ones sold here are complete internally - all radios and intercom systems work (radios cover the 27 Mhz spectrum so we can use them with CB radios). Crew helmets come up regularly on eBay but the fly leads that link the helmet to the vehicle and which have the radio switches in do not. you may have search for them. The driver and anyone in the turret seat should be wearing one of these. If running with a commander in the #2 seat they will need one to to talk to you - the engine/exhaust noise is loud to say the least!!

This is my old girl being put though her paces together with a Soviet re-enactment group at the annual War & Peace show here in the UK:

YouTube - Arena display at War & Peace show 2010

YouTube - W&P 2010 - Arena

If you want to know anything else - feel free to ask !

 

[BiffJ]

I'd like to say that Neil has it pretty well covered and just add a few notes of my own.

I'm helping AugDog take care of his BMP's and we have had to do a little work here and there. As Neil noted the front deck lifts up on hinges and allows access to almost the entire engine/drivetrain and controls. You have to lift up the top armor to access the radiators and oil coolers but its aluminum and not too tough to do. (We had to replace a radiator on the BMP-1.) Access to the compressor, preheater assembly and the rear of the engine is done through an inside access panel to the right of the turret. Its a little cramped but no worse than an airplane or any english car I ever worked on. Parts may be tough to find but they are out there. If we can get enough US owners together than we might be able to get a big enough order to interest some of the vendors that don't want bit sales.

The vehicles are easy to drive and a lot of fun. Driving with the lids closed is simple as well with excellent visibility (for armor) looking through the periscopes. The commander in the second seat and the gunner have pretty good views as well since they can swivel their sights and vision blocks. The riders in the rear compartments (left and right can't mix in the BMP and BPzV) don't have as good a view but each position has a periscope and a gunport with a vision block....at least on the BMP-1 and OT-90. The BPzV doesn't have all the gunports as the crew was smaller and more specialized. There are plenty of hatches and ventilation isn't bad opened up. Driving through the trees and bushes isn't bad closed up(no bugs and debris in the teeth). They will turn around in their own length and are very maneuverable. I think the OT-90 is lighter than the BMP and should be quicker. We've had the BMP-1 up to an indicated 65 kph. I don't recall seeing the indicator work in the BPzV but it feels slower....its heavier than the BMP-1. All of them are very cool and have a very high neatness ratio. Its said they will float but while we have water nearby we've not gotten to the point of risking one in the water. We did turn on the smoke screen in the BPzV and its very impressive. The neighbor showed up wondering if we had a barn fire or something. The T55 is fun to drive and so is the T34 but the BMP series is so easy and quick that its probably one of the best choices for a fun piece of armor. The FV432 is simpler to drive with the auto gearbox but the BMP is easy enough and a lot more fun in my opinion. If you get an opportunity to check out an OT-90 or BMP I think you'll find its worth getting one over some of the more common armor even with the parts issues.

Frank

 

[Driver_Neil]

Thanks Frank!

For comparison the BMP-1 weighs in at approx. 13.2 tons light, 14.6 tons heavy.
Whereas the OT-90 weighs in at approx. 12.5 tons light and 13.5 tons heavy.

I put together a few web pages for a University project recently that covers the OT-90, if you are interested they can be found here:
Introduction to the OT-90

If you ever decide to attempt to swim yours - make sure the pre-heater exhaust valve is closed before doing so. Lever is in the turret , to the left of the gunners seat on the floor and ahead of the 7.62mm ammo racks if you've not found it yet.
If you have - my apologies for the lesson in extracting nutriment from eggs!!

I haven't tried the smoke system on mine yet - engine needs to be at normal running temp and at at 2000rpm+ before the switch is thrown according to the books. Might try it at W&P this year - although with the current cost of diesel in the UK I might not....

One thing I found recently that you might want to keep an eye on - the post clamps on the battery connecting lead can fracture through stress leading to starting problems and it's not easily seen until they totally fracture. This is mine that I found last weekend:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/ArtistsRifles/Czech OT-90 APC/Badclamp1.jpg

New post clamps were ordered on the web and delivered Tuesday - I'll be fitting them tomorrow when I transfer her from her store to the Bunker Bash for the start of season show.

 

[BiffJ]

Thanks Neil,
I am aware of the cover for the preheater and how it works....the BPzV is slightly different since there isn't access to the floor next to the turret. It has the lever to open and close the preheater cover on the top armor just outside the turret. In any case I'd rather have more info than less so any help is always appreciated. I don't know everything yet but I'm working on it....

I'll have to check the clamps on the batteries when we get out next. I know we had one crack but I figured it was overtightened....maybe its the vibration.

AugDog and I are hoping to make it over the show in BeltRing this july and would love to talk to you about the OT and all the other toys....

Thanks
Frank

 

[Driver_Neil]

Hope you can both make it - be great to have a chat about these old girls. Mine is usually the only one there at W&P although a Slovakian guy did bring a BVP-1 over a couple of years ago.

I doubt anyone will ever know all there is to know on these machines - unless they served in the Warsaw pact Forces of course!

Fitted the new clamps OK but it seems my batteries are on their last legs as even with a good contact now electrical starting is still a no-no. So that's 2 new batteries (175 Amp/Hour, 1030 Cold cranking) @ £105 each to get.... Then I resume the hunt for a KVPT... I know where I can get them for around £175 in Poland, deactivated to Polish standards but finding a Section 5 firearms dealer in the UK to import one is nigh on impossible...

 

[BiffJ]

I've been reading through the manual you have posted on your site and wow, its much more extensive than any we've got. We've been trying to figure out what switches, knobs and doodads are for and they're all in your manual where they were glossed over in the US army version. In fact, the US Army version reminds the driver to open the drain cock just to the right of the driver prior to starting so that condensation can drain. Unfortunately the drain they point out is the radiator drain and requires not only opening the drain cock but also the drain on the floor.....probably be a bunch of dried out burned up BMP's if that second valve wasn't there..... There are capacities listed for all the fluids and systems too and that is very helpful when refilling the oil tank , radiator or gearbox. Since you can't see the fluid level in them all the time its nice to know when you've got enough in there.....
Thanks for posting that manual. Now if we can just find one for the T55 like that.....its got tons of switches and knobs in it.

Frank

 

[Driver_Neil]

I've been reading through the manual you have posted on your site and wow, its much more extensive than any we've got. We've been trying to figure out what switches, knobs and doodads are for and they're all in your manual where they were glossed over in the US army version. In fact, the US Army version reminds the driver to open the drain cock just to the right of the driver prior to starting so that condensation can drain. Unfortunately the drain they point out is the radiator drain and requires not only opening the drain cock but also the drain on the floor.....probably be a bunch of dried out burned up BMP's if that second valve wasn't there..... There are capacities listed for all the fluids and systems too and that is very helpful when refilling the oil tank , radiator or gearbox. Since you can't see the fluid level in them all the time its nice to know when you've got enough in there.....
Thanks for posting that manual. Now if we can just find one for the T55 like that.....its got tons of switches and knobs in it.

Frank

Glad it was of use to you!

Sometimes it is better not to drain the condensation - like when the group beside you have been using the road wheels as a urinal.... Starting the old girl when they have sat down for coffee = sweet revenge...

 

[Augdog1964]

Driver Neil,

Biff and I need a KPVT... preferrably two of them... demilled to US standards and shipped in. We would of course do Form 6s... can you give us contact info?

thanks

Dave Bane
Augdog1964

 

[Driver_Neil]

Driver Neil,

Biff and I need a KPVT... preferrably two of them... demilled to US standards and shipped in. We would of course do Form 6s... can you give us contact info?

thanks

Dave Bane
Augdog1964

Best I can do is give the URL of the firm that is (was?) selling them in Poland - deactivated to Polish standards. This is:

BRO? DEKO / 14,5 mm KARABIN MASZYNOWY KPWT - DEKO - Pa-Ko

Price there is 1829 Polish Zloty 0r about $652 plus shipping.

I have a problem here in the UK in that only a Section 5 licensed firearms dealer can bring one in - even though EU rules state that a deactivation cert is valid through the European Union UK law forbids a private individual from importing/owning a dactivated weapon that does not have a UK Proof House stamp & certificate. No deac dealer here is interested in bringing just one into the country so I have a major problem.

How does the import business work in the USA?

 

[BiffJ]

In the US we are required to cut the receiver into 4 pieces with a torch and either torch cut the barrel into 3 pieces or drill holes in the chamber and 2 other critical locations. At that point its no longer considered to be a firearm (obviously) and it can be imported using the normal forms just like bringing in a vehicle. Once the destroyed gun is here it can be welded back together as a display piece but no moveable bolts or internals are really allowed and the barrel is pretty useless but would work for display. The actual cutting of the gun can be done at the shippers location or in a bonded warehouse here. Its pretty sad but about the only way to do it.

Frank

 

[Augdog1964]

Thanks!

Thanks for the link... I've emailed them about the KPVTs and some armor helmets... as BiffJ so aptly put it the other day, the only thing soft in a tank is the tanker's (or owners LOL) head!

 

[Driver_Neil]

Thanks for the link... I've emailed them about the KPVTs and some armor helmets... as BiffJ so aptly put it the other day, the only thing soft in a tank is the tanker's (or owners LOL) head!

Glad to have been of assistance! If you manage to get them I will - of course - be very jealous !!

As for the helmets - I use the standard ribbed canvas helmets in my old girl - they work well, we've been thrown about quite a bit in the arena at W&P and, as yet, no one has been stunned or KO'd - touch wood! The throat mikes give a very clear voice picture compared to the clansman headset with a boom mic and windsock that I use in my Stalwart - the mic picks up all the other noise too!.
We insist the re-enactors riding in the troop compartment keep their steel helmets on too. They were a bit unsure the first time but after a couple of them head-butted the upper hatches when we hit a knife-edge at speed they became convinced...

 

[Augdog1964]

Helmets

Steel helmets in the troop compartment are an EXCELLENT idea!
Hope to see you at Beltring!

Dave Bane

 

[BiffJ]

Looks like its unofficially offical.....Dave and Frank got reservations for flights, hotel and rental car for beltring. Might try to hit some museums and stuff too. I guess we'll see ya there Neil.

Frank