CUCV Saga Continues, Need HELP!

[AZDeuce]

I've had my M1009 for about 7 years now and for the most part she has been a very reliable vehicle, but in the last several months she has been quite demanding of my attention!

First the flex plate sheared off the center hub, then she wouldn't start due to a fuel leak/air in the line, then the tranny start shifing erratically.

But with the help of the SS members I finally got it all sorted out, and running the best she has in years.

UNTIL YESTERDAY!

I've only driven her 3 times in the last 2 weeks, but I noticed the starter seemed to be turning the engine over slower, and slower, each time. I figured I'd check it out this weekend, but Mr Murphy had other plans.

The Spousal unit decided to use the CUCV yesterday, as I had her car. Unfortunately I didn't think she would do so, and therefore never informed her of the starting issue.

She stopped once, and it restarted fine, but she took our dog out to a wildlife refuge area to run around for a while, about 10 miles from the house, and when she got done the CUCV wouldn't start,

So she's trapped out in the desert and called me at work I told her what to check, and where the tools were, and I was on my way to rescue her.

When I got there the glow plug lights, and electric fuel pump come on when I turned on the key, but when I try to start it, everthing goes out and I hear a CLICK, I tried it a couple of time and the symptoms were identical.

I also had NO headlights.

So, being ELECTRICALLY CHALLENGED, I assumed I had one or more loose battery cables. I grabbed them all, but only the negative terminal was loose, I tightened it up, but the symptoms were the same.

But now the headlights worked.

Since my wife and puppy had been out in the AZ heat for over an hour and a half, I took them home, had her grab some drinks, and fired up my Deuce, as all my tools are in it, plus it being 24 volt I figured I could jump start the CUCV.

So we headed back out, and as I was hooking up the jumper cables, when I went to attach the positive cable to the CUCV, it's terminal moved -WHAT IN THE WORLD!?? I thought that I had checked that.......DOH!

Turns out the terminal not only was loose, but broken on one side where the bolt goes thru - GREAT! So I get out some vice grips
clamp that sucker tight and try to jump it

The symptoms were still the same, turn on key, get glow plug lights, and electric fuel pump, turn key to START position and everything shuts off, and hear a CLICK.

Well I ain't got time to fool with this as I need to get back to work, so I go home, park the deuce, get the car, and head back to work.

Being electronically illiterate, the best I could come up with was, the loose terminals must have been the problem, and the alternators weren't charging up the batteries, and I probably fried them (they're only a year an a half old!)

Also a guy at work told me I was jumpng the vehicle wrong. Instead of hooking up to the batteries, I should take the cables off of the CUCV's batteries, and jump straight to the CUCV's cables, thus getting power straight to the starter, bypassing the possibly shorted out batteries.

This made sense (to me anyways), did I mention I know diddly squat about electicity?

So after work I got 2 NEW 850 CCA batteries, and a new positive cable, grabbed the Deuce, and the wife, and headed back out to the desert.

I disconneted the positive cable, installed the new one, then before hooking it up to the battery tried jumping it the way I just described - SYMPTOMS WERE THE SAME! so I hooked up to the oldbatteries, still nothing, so I installed the NEW batteries, and the sympoms were STILL the SAME!

What in the world!!??? This is getting depressing/expensive.

So without power steering, and power brakes, I knew my wife couldn't drive it, so I couldn't tow it home, so I had to leave it in the desert overnight.

I figured it would raped, pillaged, and plundered this morning when I went to get it with my best friend and the Deuce, but to my surprise it was still intact!

God DOES answer prayers!

So I got her home, but don't know were to start except buying a new starter.

So a few questions:

1. Does the starter have a solonoid on top of it?

A. If so, is there a difference between a 24V and a 12V solonoid, or will any old Autozone solonoid work?

2. If necessary, where can I buy a 24V starter, and/or solonoid?

#. I read in the CUCV FAQ section that I can convert to a 12V starter, by just diconnecting the main lead (cable) from the firewall mounted junction box to the starter, and replacing that cable with one that goes directly from the starter to the + terminal on the battery nearest the firewall.

Does this sound correct?

Any help/advise appreciated - THANKS!


AZ Deuce (I.E. Dead CUCV in Buckeye, AZ)

 

[NEWFDAD]

Make sure you check the terminal block on firewall behind the rear battery. I have found connections loose and or corroded on some of the "non running" trucks that I picked up at GL. When I get a new truck I always clean all electrical connections an retighten the nuts. Every truck that I found with loose connections also needed new batteries.

Good Luck!

 

[wikallen]

Should have taken a multimeter or battery tester along, and checked your batteries first.

I would first, check the voltage at your batteries. Make sure they are charged. Then check all your cables, especially down on the starter. While trying to start it, check the voltage of the batteries, at their posts, not the cables. They should not drop but 1 or 2 volts while trying to start.

Know anyone with a tow bar so you can at least pull it home?

 

[sht2kll]

Howdy: I agree with NEWFDAD, check electrical connections make sure they are clean. As for the starter, I have not been able to find parts anywhere for my 24V starter. I am convertig mine back to 12V as there is no reason for me to have it a 24V system. With the 12V Starter I can get parts and rebuild it. since you have other vehicle that are 24V, makes it nice when you have to jump it, You might consider keeping your 1009 24V You would just have to find a component repair shop to do it. If you are interested in converting it this had some good info. http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/news_notes/nn10.pdf I love this sight. The people here are very helpful. Tom

 

[beanman1]

also check the starter relay under the dash to make sure it didnt fry sometimes they fry shut keeprong the starter engaged and sometimes the fry open not letting the starter get power

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Sounds like your starter is dead. Mine did the same thing and it turned out my bendix was dead. The starter would kick out but not turn....thus bad bendix.


There is a solenoid on the starter. NO it is not the same as a 12 v starter. NO do not try to use a 12 v starter with a 24v system.

New starters can be found on ebay for $109. Got mine from CA in 2 days when stranded in New Castle, Indiana.

 

[319]

I'd look at the starter also. Since one of your symptoms was cranking slower and slower each time, and you tried new batteries, it's a good indication of a tired starter. Be sure to check the connections at the starter before you yank it out.

 

[AZDeuce]

Thanks for all the input so far.

Yes she's home safe and sound.

I have no way to check the batterie under load, but they are brand new, they "should" be fine.

QUESTIONS:

So there is a solonoid on top of the starter, and another one under the dash?

How can you check the one under the dash without a multi-meter?

If buy a rebuilt starter off of e-bay will it come with the solonoid, or do I need to buy that seperately.

Also, in my first post above, I kept saying I had glow plug lights, and could hear the electric fuel pump when I turned the key "on," but everything shut off as soon as I turned the key to "start"

I got to thinking about that, and that would be thecorrect function correct?

All power is directed to the starter while the key is in the "start" position, but when you release the key to the "on" position all the power returns to the accesories. I'm pretty sure that's correct.

I probably never noticed it before because the starter drowns out everything else shutting off while it's in operation.

Does this make sense?

At this point with new batteries and positive cable installed, all I get is a click. Should I ASSume that means the starter is dead?

Do starters start slowing down or "dragging" when they are about to break down?

Thanks

 

[319]

Check the TMs for the proper trouble shooting procedures, could be a loose connection, the relay under the dash, the solenoid on the starter or the starter itself.
Always start your troubleshooting with fully charged batteries.
If you're electrically challenged, the relay below the dash is easy enough and inexpensive enough to change out. Do a search for the NAPA # or do the "Doghead Starter Relay Modification", then go from there.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Your thought on the starter makes sense to me but not sure if it is correct. Someone much more learned than I can answer that.

I think it is a relay under the dash rather than a solenoid technically. To deal with the relay search for "doghead modification". In there will be brief mention of how to jump around the relay to see if all is well.

My starter did not really drag much before it died. That said I had a few times where I was sure it was my batteries and hooked up cables but had poor luck with a jump, so it may have been the starter.

The starters on ebay a are just bolt and go. Just make sure you pay attention to which wire is where before you pull the old one. You MAY get lucky and find someone in your area that can rebuild your starter, but heck for 100 it is worth getting a brand new one now and having your rebuild for a backup.


My advice is look at your starter under the truck....note the wire location. pull your neg and pos battery cables off. Pull your starter and take it to an advanced auto or somethign similar. They can test your starter for free. If it spins there then you have another problem.

 

[1986Blazerk5]

Mine did the same thing it was a bad starter

 

[mistaken1]

Multimeters are less expensive than batteries.

Did you check the voltage on the new batteries? Just because they are new does not mean they are fully charged.

That being said I agree, it sounds starter related.

 

[1stSarge]

Whack the starter with a hammer a couple of times then try it. (hey it works on the M880’s)

I vote for dirty/loose/corroded connections or bad starter.

 

[AZDeuce]

Thanks for all the help/advise.

Yeah....someday a multi-meter, and the knowledge to use it.

I'm ordering a starter, but I will whack mine with a hammer just to see if it'll start, before I disconnect the batteries and remove it, I'm just curious to see if it will start.

Hopefully by the end of the week I'll have her up and running again.

 

[sht2kll]

I have to whack my 24V starter with a hammer once in a while. It likes to stick, and all you hear is a "click". I have not changed it over to 12V as of yet, I have all the parts. It is just too **** hot outside right now.

 

[bronconut]

most electrical probs can be traced back to poor connections and grounds, before i spent any money on new starter i would clean all connections, that includes the two on your starter. if you do hit your starter with a hammer remember not to hit it to hard as you may crack stuff inside, and also its best to do that with one person turning the key with you TAPPING the starter.

 

[topgun217]

Do the Doghead converision and stay with the 24V system! I had a similar issue and all it ended up to be was a bad
battery cable and connectors. Relplaced all batt. cables and the connectors from NAPA and Whala! she lived again, boy was I happy.