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I regret changing my M818 to hub piloted / unimount wheels

Blythewoodjoe

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First off, I searched for hours on here to see if anyone had done this and found nothing. Found lots of threads with words like "hub, 5 ton, and stud" in them and wasted a lot of time reading through them. A lot of threads jump track. Anyway I have switch my hubs over to hub pilot or unimount and I wish I had not. I will explain why in hopes that I might save someone some trouble.

I needed tires and I plan to use my truck for work related stuff more so I wanted to get something easier to fix in a commercial environment. If I need to have a repair truck change out a tire I wanted something other than tubeless or two piece combat wheels. I decided to go with 22.5 tires. While asking around about wheels and tires I was convinced by some of the guys at Snyder (big rig shop) to look into switching to hub pilot wheels because those wheels are very plentiful. This is true but stud pilot wheels (bud) is more common than I realized before changing out my studs. I have not gotten wheels and tires mounted up yet but it appears I can use the hub pilot with out a lot of trouble.

So if you want to use 22.5 tubeless tires on your 5 ton, you can find steel wheels for around $35 each. Aluminum for around $150 and 22.5 by 13" or 14" for around $200 used. They are harder to find, but they are out there. Hub pilot wheels are very plentiful and about the same price. In my opinion there is no real advantage at this time to switch to hub pilot. In a few years that will change as the bud wheels dry up. But once you get your truck set up, all you have to replace is tires, so wheel supply is less important.

As I get tires and wheels on my truck I will post more about how it is working out. If I want to switch back I will just put the hubs off my spare axles on there. Here's a break down of cost for the switch:

Long 22mm studs: $4.20 each
22 mm nuts: $2.25 each
22 mm nuts with a short sleeve $7.20 each (optional)

With standard lug nuts it's around $70.00 a hub, $140 per axle. I plan to use half regular nuts and half sleeved nuts so that will bump them up to above $100 a hub.

Again, rims are out there so the switch was un-necessary. I have aluminum rims and I am working on a set or recaps for the rear and decent used or new tires for the front. My truck is a bobber. If you are considering going with 22.5's and don't know much, ask me. I am now painfully educated on them. I hope to have it sitting on new rubber in a week or two depending on which tires I get. I had planned to put 445/65R22.5 on all four corners, but the 22.5 x 13" wheels for the front are $400 each new and I can't find used one's near by so for now it will be getting 11R22.5's.
 

jasonjc

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How do you center the wheel on the hub?? Hub piloted hubs, have tabs that center the wheels , 5 tons hubs don't. Just asking.
 

Blythewoodjoe

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I read your whole post, WHY do you "regret" the change,
Two reasons:

First, I can't put bud wheels back on with out changing the hubs.

Second, I could have gotten by fine with out changing them. I would have to change to longer studs to use aluminum wheels but even with that change I could still put the buds back on.

As for the hubs holding the wheel, the hubs on the 5 ton are just a few thousands bigger than the opening on the unimount wheels. A sanding wheel on my grinder removed the paint and a little metal and they fit. They will be close so corrosion will be a concern. I plan to put a little anti-seize only on the part of the hub they recommend putting a little lube on. It appears on most trucks they are not as centered as they could be and the guys at Snyder use centering nuts to get them centered. They put three of these centering nuts (just long rods with thread on the inside) on three studs and then after they snug up the other 7 nuts, they remove these and put the nuts on. Torqueing them to 475 ft/lbs is required. In theory it will work. I will be checking my lug nuts often for a while. That's also why I am using these sleeved nuts. They will hold the wheel perfectly centered.
 

Csm Davis

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Okay so I must say thank you because I have a trailer with hub centric wheels and hubs and want to switch to the bud lug centric wheels I have on everything else I own. So all I need to do is change the lugs?
 

m16ty

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Yea, Budd wheels are still pretty common.

About the only real advantage to hub pilot is if you're running duals. With hub pilots you only have one set of nuts when installing duals. The hub pilot nuts are also a little easier to remove with a breaker bar out in the field.
 

Blythewoodjoe

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Okay so I must say thank you because I have a trailer with hub centric wheels and hubs and want to switch to the bud lug centric wheels I have on everything else I own. So all I need to do is change the lugs?
That is probably correct. The studs I removed from my 5 ton hubs came out of holes that the common and standard unimount studs go into. Since the hub is a little smaller then the you should have no problem there I would think. I figured the stud holes in the hub would have been smaller because the bud stub is a 3/4" bolt but the bottom of the bud stud was much bigger on the bottom end. I would expect the studs on your trailer to be the same size as the standard ones I used on my conversion. If they are you just need to pick one the right length. If it's too long the inner bud nut might bottom out before it tightens. I found everything I needed at a quality truck supply house. I checked with some of the common auto stores and they didn't know much and wanted a lot for what they thought would work. I went to our "truck supply" store here in Columbia, they looked at the hub, took a measurement and went over to the bucket full of studs across the room and pulled out what I needed. It really worked quite well.

I agree the only advantage of the unimount is the easy install duals. If you are running singles, I think the bud is better.
 

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Floridianson

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Somewhat related I just switched out my stuff on the M920. Went with steel stud pilot 24.5x8.25 wheels and 11R24.5 tires. The price is a little high for recondition wheels painted black and new tires but I think it will be worth it in the end. I like tubeless as all you need it a sheet metel screw to fix a nail hole for a quick fix to make the day. Then when you can dismount the tire and do a radical plug from the inside.
 

Blythewoodjoe

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Blythewood, SC
I got the truck sat down on the new wheels today. Here's a few pictures of the almost finished project. Still looking for some 12.25" or 13" front wheels. I don't like the 11r22.5 tires on the front. I want 385/65r22.5 on the front or 445/65R22.5 all the way around. I have 455/55r22.5 recaps on the back. I would like to put some miles on them before doing any more changes. I put some anti seize compound between the wheel and hub. I also used 5 sleeved lug nuts on each wheel (every other position). I have a picture of the standard 22mm lug nut and the 22mm sleeved nut. I would like to have used all sleeved but 20 of them cost me $160. Too cheap for 40. I plan to torque all the lug nuts before I drive it any distance and then check them often for the first few hours of driving.

I like the convenience of the 22.5 tires and the weight of the aluminum wheels. The 14" wheels on the back are about 50 pounds each. The front are much lighter although the wider front wheels are several pounds heavier that the wide rears. I took an un-mounted wheel and tire, mounted and inflated them in about 10 minutes. 5 minutes of that I was waiting on the cheetah tank to fill up. I needed the tank for the front wheels but not for the rear. Those rear tires fill up the rim. The front had a big gap before inflating.
 

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Blythewoodjoe

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I couldn't stand the 11.00's on the front so I broke down and bought new 12.25" wheels for the front. LOOKS MUCH BETTER. Drove it for the first time yesterday and it rode fine. Not happy with the used tires on the front and I am considering buying two new 385/65's. Bad part is they are at least $450 each, and that is probably imported. Not sure I want to go that route because if I do I will be married to them. I should never wear them out which means that is the size I will have for a very long time. I think the truck would look nice with 445/65 on all four but that's a lot more money. Anyway, here's a couple of pictures with wore out 425/65's on the front and the recapped 455/55's on the rear. The front tires are about 1.5" taller than the rear. If they had lots of thread I think they would be a little over 2" taller. I am also considering two new 425's on the front and two used and wore 445's on the rear, but I am not sure how that would look. I would expect new 425's to be about 1" shorter than very used 445's.
 

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Vintage iron

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I am going to do this to my M916. I have a bunch of new 445/65/22.5 Goodyears on hub pilot rims. I will be converting the truck over to a civilian dump truck. Hub pilot just makes sense.
 

tobyS

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I have a set of Michelins on a M322 trailer that would work sweet.
 

Jerry L

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I am going to do this to my M916. I have a bunch of new 445/65/22.5 Goodyears on hub pilot rims. I will be converting the truck over to a civilian dump truck. Hub pilot just makes sense.
Hi, I know this is an old post but wondered if you did this conversion and what you had to do? I also am wanting to switch over to some super single pilot mount wheels I found for my M916.
 

simp5782

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Hi, I know this is an old post but wondered if you did this conversion and what you had to do? I also am wanting to switch over to some super single pilot mount wheels I found for my M916.
It's cheaper to just use budd wheels.

Buy a m989a1 ammo trailer. That gives you 5 wheels for around $1k. Cheaper if you shop around put other tires on the trailer and sell it.
 

Jerry L

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It's cheaper to just use budd wheels.

Buy a m989a1 ammo trailer. That gives you 5 wheels for around $1k. Cheaper if you shop around put other tires on the trailer and sell it.
ya I am sure it is easier as well. I was just hoping to use the newer style super singles I found but if it's too big of a pain I may have to stick to duals.
 

simp5782

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ya I am sure it is easier as well. I was just hoping to use the newer style super singles I found but if it's too big of a pain I may have to stick to duals.
You can use budd super single wheels in 22.5

I run them on the steers on my 920. 445 65 22.5 tires. Just in budd wheels not hub pilots.

12R24.5s on the rear in dual.

You have to grind down the front drums to fit 22.5 wheels though.


Smaller 385 or 425s would actually help that 7 spd 916. They have a hell of a hole between 3rd and 4th and 4th and 5th where the rpms drop.
 

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Jerry L

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Chico, Ca
You can use budd super single wheels in 22.5

I run them on the steers on my 920. 445 65 22.5 tires. Just in budd wheels not hub pilots.

12R24.5s on the rear in dual.

You have to grind down the front drums to fit 22.5 wheels though.


Smaller 385 or 425s would actually help that 7 spd 916. They have a hell of a hole between 3rd and 4th and 4th and 5th where the rpms drop.
ok, mine actually has been updated with the allison 7spd so may not be an issue?
 
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