leaky cylinders

SeeNebraska

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i have 2 known cylinder leaks. 1 is one of the main backhoe cylinders, i forget which one right now. the other is one of the side to side cylinders for the hoe. the leaks are bad enough to not want to engage the PTO for very long. how would you guys recommend rebuilding these? Should i remove the entire backhoe first? can i do some of the rebuild in place?

are there special tools i need to find or make?
 

porkysplace

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i have 2 known cylinder leaks. 1 is one of the main backhoe cylinders, i forget which one right now. the other is one of the side to side cylinders for the hoe. the leaks are bad enough to not want to engage the PTO for very long. how would you guys recommend rebuilding these? Should i remove the entire backhoe first? can i do some of the rebuild in place?



are there special tools i need to find or make?
The main boom cylinder extend the boom out on the ground , unhook the lines and pull the pins on the cylinders . But since these have twin cylinders for the boom rebuild both of them at the same time . You should also be able to pull the swing cylinders with out removing anything else . You need a spanner wrench to unscrew cylinder end ( available at your local Case industrial Equipment dealer).

https://www.brokentractor.com/p/case-hydraulic-cylinder-spanner-wrench-cas-1456a-cas-1456a/
 

peakbagger

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There is lot of discussion on the monster Unimog thread on leaking cylinder seals. I know I posted the name of company that sells the seals and the tools at one point but I would have to go searching. There is also discussion that getting the caps loose is a major effort. Because of that, unless you have some special tool that I have never seen, you will need to take the cylinders off and securely attach them to a fixed object and with an appropriate amount of heat and a very long breaker bar most likely a with cheater pipe the caps will eventually come off. There is also a member that works for Case Equipment that has posted the proper way of ordering the OEM seals direct from Case.
 

SeeNebraska

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i tried searching through the main thread... so hard to do without just reading the entire thing since there are 4 or 5 topics being discussed at a time usually.

this is about the only thing i found in there:
Q: Any idea what the model # is on the case back hoe?? 580... what letter..??
I blew the seal on 1 the swing right and left piston ..
A: Technically it's an M35C, but 580C seems to be the civilian counterpart. But I've also seen 580D mentioned.
Not that it really should matter, as your local friendly hydraulic shop will measure the seals anyway.


also found this picture
 

SeeNebraska

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There is lot of discussion on the monster Unimog thread on leaking cylinder seals. I know I posted the name of company that sells the seals and the tools at one point but I would have to go searching. There is also discussion that getting the caps loose is a major effort. Because of that, unless you have some special tool that I have never seen, you will need to take the cylinders off and securely attach them to a fixed object and with an appropriate amount of heat and a very long breaker bar most likely a with cheater pipe the caps will eventually come off. There is also a member that works for Case Equipment that has posted the proper way of ordering the OEM seals direct from Case.
how would you go about attaching the cylinders to a fixed object? do you try to clamp along the cylinder or do you only grab onto the end where the pin goes through? if its accessible, i would think leaving one end attached to the truck would be a good way to hold it to break the caps loose.
 

rtrask

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how would you go about attaching the cylinders to a fixed object? do you try to clamp along the cylinder or do you only grab onto the end where the pin goes through? if its accessible, i would think leaving one end attached to the truck would be a good way to hold it to break the caps loose.
This may be a case of the blind leading the blind, but I am currently in the process of replacing the bucket rod, and the seals on the right boom cylinder. I have been breaking the gland nut free while the cylinder is still attached.

You might want to get a big spanner wrench. Here is the link to the one I bought. https://www.tooltopia.com/search.aspx?find=CTA8605. The socket fitting is 3/4" so if you don't have a 3/4" breaker bar you might need one of those too.
Make sure that you remove the screw / small bolt that locks the gland nut in place before you put any pressure on it to remove the gland nut. The gland nut on the Boom cylinder came right off. I did not see the screw on the Bucket cylinder and when I couldn't get it to budge I found it underneath the cylinder. I will never know for sure if my using a 6' cheater the 1/4 head bolt twisted off aua. So now I need to remove the whole cylinder and drill it out before I can proceed. That's on the list for this weekend. I have also found the hoses to be a bugger to break free.

Speedwoble works for case and he appreciates you buying from case which I respect, and you can be certain of the quality of the parts you get. You can also find the seal kits on Amazon. Go to the second volume of the parts catalog in GROUP 2407 and get the part number of the kit. When you search on the part number you will have a choice of vendors. For example 1543265C1 for the seal kit for the bucket cylinder 1543294C1 for the seal kit for the bucket cylinder.

You can find posts on rebuilding the rams on these posts on the main thread

Rebuilding Hydraulic rams
Page 377 posts 3762-3770 page 380 post 3792 page 383 post 3823 page 37 post 366 page 38 post 374

I hope you were not effected by the recent flooding.

Ron
 
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rtrask

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Over the weekend I got the bucket cylinder off and the gland nut removed. Do your self a favor and make sure you remove the 1/8" locking screw before you put any pressure on it. Mine was under the cylinder and I did not find it until it was too late. The head of the screw snapped off, I had to remove the whole cylinder instead of just the gland nut and rod. I had to drill out the old screw, I foolishly tried a easy out extractor, and busted the little drill bit off in the hole which made drilling out the screw and hardened drill bit a real bear. It took a 2 hour job and turned it into a 8 hour job. The best thing I can say about it that is besides drilling a clean hole and tapping it for a replacement, screw the job is behind me. Well I still need to get the new seals in, new rod, and get it all back together, but I optimistically think that will not be so bad. In both cases once the locking screw was removed, it did not take a lot of force to remove the gland nut.

The driver side boom cylinder was leaking like a sieve with big holes. After I removed the rod I could not budge the gland nut on the rod so after I removed piston nut, I wound up screwing the gland nut with the rod back into the cylinder and winching it out with a come along.

After I got it out I can see why it was leaking so bad.

gland_nut_asRemoved.jpg
 

NDT

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Or press the easy button and drop the cylinder off at your friendly local hydraulic shop.
 

rtrask

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I got the seals replaced in the two boom cylinders and replaced the rod and seals on the bucket cylinder. It was not such a bad job, the hardest part was just wrangling the cylinders around by myself. They are pretty heavy and breaking the piston bolts loose took some doing. 600 ft-lbs spec and red Locktite. A 8' breaker bar did the trick, but it took all I had.

You need a 1 1//2" socket for the boom rod and 1 7/8" socket for the bucket cylinder. The seals in the boom cylinder that was leaking were completely trashed. The gland nut on that side was badly rusted. I used electrolysis to remove the rust from the gland nut. It was my first attempt at the technique and it worked pretty well.

I originally did not intend to replace the seals in the left boom cylinder but was convinced that since they share pressure one side being weaker than the other was a recipe for trouble. I am not sure if that was why the right boom cylinder started leaking, but the seals on the left side that were a lot newer (probably from the 2005 rebuild).

The seal kit I bought contained an extra seal. so don't sweat that.
 

SeeNebraska

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what is the best way to drain all the hydraulic oil for the backhoe? I've got the pistons pulled out of both swing cylinders so I'm assuming a large percentage of the oil is already drained but is there something else i can do to flush the system? my oil looked like chocolate milk so i think it had a lot of water in it.

I don't have any sockets or wrenches to fit the piston bolts, i think its 1.75 inch or 45 mm, so i'm going in to the local hydraulic shop to have them disassemble and i'll probably just let them put all the new seals in as well.
 

SeeNebraska

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I'd pull the drain plug on the tank.
i did that and made a huge mess due to the drain location being directly over the fuel tank :)

I was wondering more if there is a flush process to get all the fluid out of the cylinders as well or do you just have to disconnect lines at each cylinder to drain them all? I went ahead and drained what I could and then filled up with new fluid, i figured i'd watch what the fluid looks like and decide if it needs drained again in the near future.
 

The FLU farm

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After the first time I drained the rear tank, I saw the value of those "over priced" malleable plastic funnels.

Anyway, I'd put the cheapest possible fluid in there, run everything for a bit, then drain it out (cylinders retracted) and refill with a good AW-32.
 

SeeNebraska

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is it true that even when running cheap stuff through, i should be sure to only use an AW type of fluid? I'm running CAM2 AW32 right now.

After the first time I drained the rear tank, I saw the value of those "over priced" malleable plastic funnels.

Anyway, I'd put the cheapest possible fluid in there, run everything for a bit, then drain it out (cylinders retracted) and refill with a good AW-32.
 

The FLU farm

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Not sure if it really matters. There must be some 10W left in my SEEs, and they still work.
But since you're already running AW-32, I'd use that for the flush, too.
 

Jamesm417

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I'm trying to remove the cylinders from the stabilizers. I have the snap rings, and hydraulic lines removed, but the pins holding the lower end to the stabilizer pad will not budge.
I've tried several applications of PB Blaster over the past few days, and still no luck. Am I missing something here, or do I just need to hit it harder?

Thanks,

Jim
 

porkysplace

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I'm trying to remove the cylinders from the stabilizers. I have the snap rings, and hydraulic lines removed, but the pins holding the lower end to the stabilizer pad will not budge.
I've tried several applications of PB Blaster over the past few days, and still no luck. Am I missing something here, or do I just need to hit it harder?

Thanks,

Jim
The stabilzer pins are a problem on the Case 580's also , no grease fittings , the pins rust to the cylinder . You can try heating and letting cool , but often you end up cutting the pins and getting new ones and in some cases you end up replacing the entire cylinder and pins . Good luck welcome years of sitting with no grease.

PB Blaster is just watered down kersene , try some Kroil .
 

The FLU farm

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Somewhere in the main thread is the story about my reluctant bucket pin, and how I finally got it out.
That included using 50/50 ATF and acetone, which puts all other penetrating oils to shame.

Hitting pins harder can really backfire, as they tend to mushroom.
 
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