New to the M105... a few questions.

[Kingsly]

Hey all, after lurking around here for a few weeks I just picked up my first MV. It's a '68 M105A2. Complete with a bullet hole.

I'm moving from L.A. up to Portland, so I got it with the intent of using it to haul my stuff up there, and for business once I'm settled (to be followed shortly by a deuce. I'm a filmmaker and assuming business is booming one will haul equipment while the other hauls a massive generator ).

I have a few questions however...

My tow vehicle is a '98 Land Rover Discovery. Max tow capacity is 5200lbs (7200 low range) with I think about a 400lb tongue weight. As things stand there's about a 6" difference between the hook and lunette. I know I'm due for new suspension (judging by how much the rear sagged when hooked up!) so she'll be getting a 2-3" lift with heavy duty springs. I'll also be adding a surge brake actuator to the trailer which should lower the lunette about 4". All in all my math says it'll sit about level... I hope!

I am a little concerned about how tall the trailer stands and her empty weight. Somewhere out on the internets I read the axle/wheel assembly alone accounted for almost 1200lbs. Is this true? I've been considering swapping in a more sensible axle - something from an F350 or the like - that I know will weigh less. Also finding tires would be easier while on a trip. Jut a thought I'm toying around with.

Secondly, I'm looking at these brakes. Looks like air over hydraulic. Am I right in assuming I can undo the flexible brake line from the rear of the air/hyd master cylinder and run a new line from there to the surge actuator's M/C?

Lastly, Does anyone know the pinout for the electrical connector? I'm going to convert it to a standard 7pin, but a diagram would be so much easier than a multimeter....

I know I know, I'm killing it, but this one's purpose in life is to get me and my wife up to Portland and haul film equipment to and from set either with my truck or my partner's 4 runner. So it has to be civvie ready!

On the tow home she pulled well and I didn't particularly notice the weight or a loss of braking. But fully loaded over 1200 miles... that's another story.

 

[swbradley1]

Welcome board. First thing learn to use search as there are threads on converting the plug over or rewiring the whole thing. There are also threads on axle swaps for trailers.

I am curious, you say it is air over hydraulic and you want to move a line to the new surge brake? It might work but I don't remember ever seeing any info about it. Without brakes, fully loaded you are going to have a problem stopping so you really need to get that worked out, especially when it's wet outside.

As for lunette height, if you put an actuator on it how will it lower it? Any I've ever seen are on top. You can get different adjustable pintles for the truck to raise the truck side up, couple that with the new springs and flipping the lunette down you might be pretty close.

Good luck.

 

[michigandon]

I am curious, you say it is air over hydraulic and you want to move a line to the new surge brake? It might work but I don't remember ever seeing any info about it. Without brakes, fully loaded you are going to have a problem stopping so you really need to get that worked out, especially when it's wet outside.

I think he means that he wants to eliminate the air over hydraulic system altogether and plumb the wheel cylinders directly to a surge brake actuator not unlike the one on the M101a2's and 3's. Don't see why you couldn't do that, although I'm sure it would take a bit of trial and error to get it dialed in.

Do the 105s have one wheel cylinder per backing plate or two?

 

[swbradley1]

Oh I know what he wants to do, I've just never seen it done before.

I would be interested to know the outcome.

 

[SteveKuhn]

I remembered this from my research last year. The lunette/surge unit is here but it doesn't look like it'll drop the tongue much - probably just to the bottom of the frame. You'll need the 12" riser plate and will still tow nose down. I've reposted my photo because that's about how I'd estimate it'll look, +/-.

There's also a 6.5 ton version:
Titan Zinc-Plated Brake Actuator - Drum - Lunette Ring - Bolt On - 8,000 lbs Titan Trailer Coupler T4093200

If I was thinking axle swap, it wouldn't be for a truck take off. I'd use a real trailer axle - new or takeoff. But when you do that, then you're into considering electric brakes.

SWBradley's right - there are a number of axle swap threads for M105 and I lived in them for about 10 days. They're wonderful sources.

It's not the cheap way out for a trailer with all that customizing. Oh - and I'd just make me a bolt on light bar w/ HF trailer lights for the 7 pin. Fast & cheap.

Steve

 

[Recovry4x4]

Welcome to Steel Soldiers. Before jumping from the frying pan into the fryer, I would do a cost benefit analysis. Using the truck axle would be much cheaper but you don't gain anything in brakes. Now you need to outfit the trailer with a surge coupler. Unless you find a screaming deal, these will likely equal the cost of the trailer. Assuming you got the trailer for a fair price, lets use $300 and add the surge assy at $300, you now have $600 in your trailer and haven't lifted a wrench. For right around that price you can score an M101A2 that already has surge brakes and comes in considerably lighter. Common 8 lug rims and 16 tires can be had anywhere. Just saying that unless you have the parts laying around or a friend at the trailer supply that's going to slip you something out the back door, you might be dollars and sense ahead with the 101A2.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Welcome to Steel Soldiers. Before jumping from the frying pan into the fryer, I would do a cost benefit analysis. Using the truck axle would be much cheaper but you don't gain anything in brakes. Now you need to outfit the trailer with a surge coupler. Unless you find a screaming deal, these will likely equal the cost of the trailer. Assuming you got the trailer for a fair price, lets use $300 and add the surge assy at $300, you now have $600 in your trailer and haven't lifted a wrench. For right around that price you can score an M101A2 that already has surge brakes and comes in considerably lighter. Common 8 lug rims and 16 tires can be had anywhere. Just saying that unless you have the parts laying around or a friend at the trailer supply that's going to slip you something out the back door, you might be dollars and sense ahead with the 101A2.

Don't forget about that lift kit with HD springs for the tow vehicle.

 

[Kingsly]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I searched for about month for an M101 and they're simply not around here in CA, save for one guy who resells them for over $1500!

We're down to the wire on this move (thus no time to wait on a GL bid), and it became one of those things where it was either this trailer or an equally sized civilian trailer for twice the price. And that's still used! Or I could have rented a trailer from u-haul for around $700 for the one way trip. But then we couldn't take our time up the coast, since the rental is on a daily rate.
I've got about $500 in it including the pintle hook and drawbar for my truck. My business partner is paying for the surge actuator, since it'll be our gear hauler in the future and he wants it to be compatible with his truck, which leaves me to take care of a possible axle swap. Assuming I drop $2-300 (pick-n-pull, do the work myself) into that I'm pretty much where i'd have been with u-haul, except we get to keep it!

As for that actuator, from some pictures on here and elsewhere it looks like the way to do it is weld a 2" square tube to the underside of the tongue, then bolt the actuator to that. In pictures the lunette seems to hang about 2" below the actuator, so that's where I was calculating my drop. Make sense?

 

[SteveKuhn]

Once again, check the threads here and on Google. Try Google images as well. There are some innovative ideas on the off road sites. There are a couple of mods to the tongue that are possible.

I haven't seen a picture of what you describe. It might get you the drop but I'd think that whether it's a good idea has a lot to do with how it is reinforced. Personally, I'd want it tied in back farther, too. but there's that landing leg swing. Take another look at my photo above to see what I mean. I wouldn't want to sacrifice or interfere with the landing gear.

They also make bolt-ons with a triangular mount.

Since you seem to want to swap the axle, I'd seriously consider having electric brakes with a controller in each truck. Wait'll you need to back up a loaded M105 with a surge brake. A lockout provision is essential

Steve

 

[Bighurt]

$1500 for a working M101 isn't bad. To rich for me but I enjoy building things myself, and love wrenching.

But there is a lot to be said to buy a trailer that's usable instantly. Even my 105's are not FMC, the electric doesn't work, the hand brakes are poor, and I've never even hooked up the lines to a truck.

So lets look at the math $1500 for a trailer ready to go or your mods.

Lift kit
HD springs
Surge brake.
Repair parts.
Labor costs, if your wrenching you ain't filming.
Plus cost of original trailer.

I think you'll find trying to make the M105 work behind your current truck is more expensive than giving the guy $1500 for the M101. Then look at it this way, M101 for the Rover which is cool and perfect companion, and justification to buy a M35 for the M105.

Again if I wanted a M101 for what it is. $1500 is less headache...

 

[SteveKuhn]

I went through my saved stuff and found this:
M105 as utility trailer (Land Cruiser w/ a nice axle swap. No brakes. Good info esp. at the bottom in the comments.)

A good SS threads that cover what's going on here. The links don't work when I post them but they're in the trailers forum, posts 68150 & 58487.

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[Kingsly]

Thanks, that Ih8mud trailer was a big source of inspiration for me. Happily, I was able to find a guy locally who can fab up a custom trailer axle with electric brakes for about the same price we were going to pay for the surge actuator. So I'll get a drop, brakes, "normal" wheels/tires, shed some weight, and don't have to change the lunette all in one shot. Win win situation.

All I need to do now is find out the electrical pinout and install a 7-blade plug.