To buy or not to buy? M211

[jaw818]

Ok, So I have wanted a 6x6 for a long time. Just thought they are cool, and I will be honest, it will be 80% toy, 20% work. That being said, since I don't actually NEED one, I was in no rush to run out and buy the first one I found. I sat around and searched for a deal, which I think I found... but since 6x6s are a bit out of my area of knowledge, I figure it can't hurt to ask.

First, It would be cool to have a diesel... but they are more expensive, so maybe at another time, or maybe a motor swap project... but if the price is right, gas is fine.

I found a 1952 M211, and I have talked the guy down to $1100. It runs and drives, it has one leaky wheel cyl. and the tranny is temperamental about 3rd and 4th. He said the truck sat for a long time, he changed the fluid and that helped some, and said maybe it just needs another change.

Does anyone know if this is a common problem? Does it mean the trans is junk? And if it is, being a GM motor, would the 400TH trans I have laying around be a suitable replacement or not?

Beyond that, everything works. Winch is there, and works. just has a flat bed on it.

I figure $1100 is not to far off from scrap price, so its probably hard to go too wrong (except I do have to drive a ways to pick it up), what are the axles worth, and does it have a divorced t-case? I know those are generally popular with mudders, and in the case of catastrophic failure could I at least recoup my investment that way?

Finally, if the truck holds out, what is the m211 off-road capability? how is it to drive? Anything I should know before diving into an old truck like this?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[overlordofmars]

I really like my two M211 trucks, they are fun to drive and a reb shift kit would fix that pesky problem with the trans servos being lazy. Sorry to say a 400 is not ann option for that engine, but call a place called transdapt and get hold of an adapter plate and as I found out an Allison auto wedges in tightly with a bit of modifications. There are a lot of them in retired school buses.

The trans in those is not bad to tear down and fix, keep in mind they do not use ATF unless modified to use it. They were designed for 10 weight motor oil. I am not kidding.

My 211 drives great, better than my M35a2 , email me and I will send you a link to the technical manuals.

 

[m1010plowboy]

G749 m211

Overlordofmars is so right, my M135 drives great. Similar the the M211 but with a different box and bigger, single rear tires.


In my opinion 50+ year old trucks need to be retired and allowed to rest. Metal becomes fatigued just like us and sooner or later......it will break.

I beat mine on the farm for over a year before turning her into an asphalt queen. As an off-road vehicle the 12000 lbs goes anywhere as long as you have a winch, a cat and an 8 wheel drive tractor to get it out once you're stuck.
When 'sidesloping', the weight tends to carry it downhill so as long as you're
off-roading on dry, flat ground.....it will do great.

As an asphalt toy she'll get up in traffic and cause more accidents then the Dallas Cheerleaders topless car-wash. I think it's more of a fact that folks don't
"road" the G749 style but once on the road it gains a lot of attention because
they are just so pretty.........and I say that in a deep voice.
There's a high level of pride that keeps old trucks on the highway and it's like having the model T of trucks. They are old so "saving" one means you'll
probably want to baby it.

The trani does have some 'adjustments' you can do externally on the bands but clean fluid, filter screen cleaning and linkage adjustments fixed mine.
The 302 purrs like kitten and roars like a bear at the top end. A diesel swap is possible. The T-case is separate, not divorced yet but the two of them yell at
each other all the time.

I am down to 1 hr of Preventative Maintenance (PM's) to 1 hr of operating.
Until all seals are replaced in the 12 wheel cylinders, engine, trani, t-case, air-pak, pillow block, PTO, compressor, winch and axles, they tend to leak a little and topping up takes time.

For a grand it makes it a tough decision. I put over 500 hours into mine before I felt it was safe for the highway. Let us know what you decide to do.

Here's a G749 article that's worth looking at.

http://www.militarytrader.com/military-vehicles-news/m211_the_cadillac_deuce

 

[jaw818]

Thanks for all the information. Allow me to be more clear on the intentions of the truck: Though I do not intend to go "Dukes of Hazzard" with the truck, It is also not going to be a "restore" project any time soon. I own quite a few old vehicles, and I am aware of the never ending battles with seals and leaks... and for the amount of use the truck will see, some leaky seals will merely fall under the category of "rust prevention" for some time. I do not intend to be going on any long trips (50 MPH and the less than ideal fuel economy does not make it ideal for the family vacation).

My applications for it will be hauling firewood off of my hunting property (none of our big trucks could make it down there w/o getting stuck), and perhaps some salting and maybe plowing in the winter if I can find a plow system to my liking.

On the more recreational side, it will probably run around town in the summer a few times, cruising to the local county fairs events, and serving as the DD bus from time to time.
It may make appearances now and then when we get together to play in the mud. I have a mud truck, but the 6x6 would be an excellent pull-out vehicle, and a fun truck to load a bunch of people in and splash through the kiddy puddles. Though knowing where I come from and the people I hang out with... I would probably be a fool to say that peer pressure won't drive it into a few places it probably shouldn't have gone.

Also, I am from MN, and hills are not really a problem.

I guess what I am hoping for is a solid utility vehicle. If it needs something fixed it will get it, but I am not looking for something to decorate my garage and follow the beauty queen float in the local parade. If I buy a truck, it will get used, and a little abused. Perhaps I don't have the nostalgic attachment to the MVs as I should, unlike the the cars of the same era. And if I am looking at this too practically (being, 1k for a running truck, restored is worth maybe 3k, parted and scraped is worth 4k) and I am out of line please let me know.

In all honesty the only experience I have ever personally had with a 6x6 is when the tanker the fire dept. has got stuck in the mud fully loaded... they called us to come pull them out. So, I really am flying to this blind. I just think it would be a cool toy, and perhaps thats the wrong attitude to have and I will get in over my head, but its why I am here asking questions

thanks again for the help

 

[Stan Leschert]

You want an M35 multi fuel.
The M211 is a great truck, but there is no way I would use it as a reliable utility vehicle.

You have a chance at a great parade and weekend vehicle, probably at a stupid price, depending on condition.

Post some pics, and we can probably give you a better idea.

While you're at it, search our threads on M135, M211.

We've been there and done a lot of things.

While making a descion, read the manuals, The links are in a few of my posts....

Personally, I LIKE these style of trucks, but I'm biased!

 

[jaw818]

Ok, I think I attached some photos... still trying to figure out the format here.

Thanks for the info

Jordan

 

[135gmc]

Back about 15 years or so ago, Bob Kettler ran Direct Support. He specialized in the gas trucks since the diesels weren't very common on the surplus market yet. He told me that he used to drive a GMC off-road and that he could drive circles around the Jeeps. The advantage to the automatic is that the tranny handles the shifting, versus a manual transmission.

I drove my '135 off road a few times, and it did very well -

 

[waayfast]

First, welcome to the site from Salmon River Country!

WOW! That's really nice! I think one of the nicer ones I've seen for a while. AND for that price!!?? BUY IT NOW!! You are saving so much money on that truck , you should be able to also get an M-35 multi fuel to go with it. Really.

As you so well stated, this old iron always has some kind of issue, because ---well-- it's old! Just part of the game

Really, by the pics shown, that is one heck of a good start and basically at that price not even really a big ticket/vehicle purchase----dang near more like coffee allowance money. Another thing to consider---if it's close/local, that means a LOT what with the gas prices and all. Last but not least, if the title is good --I say it's really a good deal.

Jim

 

[m1010plowboy]

G749

Those pics are great Jordan, It's preserved! Looks complete with a sweet hood, lights, a decent steering wheel and from what I can tell, a decent box. Exciting, tough decision and waayfast has it right, you'll also NEED an M35, someday.

One of the really honorable things that can happen on a lower budget is the simple "Preservation" of the old Military Vehicles. I did not have the Budget or time to "Restore" my truck so I basically treated the rust, splashed some paint on it and went through the mechanical so I could drive and enjoy it. Amazingly enough, everyone around my 6X enjoys her as much as I do.....if not more.


The great part about the G749 series is that several generations of military got to work with the truck. I've had more people approach my M135 with stories of either themselves or their fathers training, testing or freezing their butts off in it.

Most recently met a man that had worked at Fort Churchill in Manitoba. He was part of the Cold testing facility which doubled as a post for the DEW line that was going in sometime in the 50's/ 60's he said. The poor boy had tears in his eyes as he re-visited the times he fired up the 302 in -40 weather and picked up 'the troops' to go to work.

Another encounter with a man that drove the truck as a ten year-old child in Germany while his Dad was in charge of the motor-pool. Handing him the keys and letting him tour the park we were visiting while his wife watched from the park bench......happy times.
Whatever your decision is, offroad, chopped, bobbed, antique, original......let us know, so we can come for the ride.

Thanks for the pics.

_______________________________
Dave

 

[jaw818]

Thanks for the info guys!

Waayfast brought up a point I forgot to mention!... the truck doesn't have a title. The guy says he is going to check with the DMV monday about getting one, and MN DMV can be pretty lenient about older vehicles, but does this present any problems? Has anyone bought a title-less old truck like this and managed to get a title for it. I want to be able to register it and drive it on the road. Also, it has no blinkers... he said it never had them, is this true and is it legal to drive on the street without them?

Another thing I have noticed in searching the interwebs for these trucks:
There are a few early 50s m211s and m135s here ant there for 2-3k, and one 50s M139 5-ton bridge truck for $2700 obo (thoughts on this truck? runs and drives, gas engine, winch, good tires)

Then there are the quite a few early 70s m35 multi-fuels: tanker pump trucks, personnel trucks, etc, ranging from 3500-7k

Then there are some early 90s AM General Cat diesel trucks in the 12k-25k range..

Its like they skip decades... I have not found ANY 60s trucks or 80s trucks. I have a friend who used to have a 60s diesel personnel truck that he paid $2k for... if I could find a deal like that I would snatch one up in a heart beat... But I cant find them anywhere! Why is this? If I could get a top-loader diesel AND an m211 for $3k, my summer would be made.

as far as local goes... the truck is a good 2.5 hours away. I would be trailering it... so its not exactly next door.
People also seem very nonnegotiable on price... I have talked to a few M35 owners who have had their trucks posted and re-listed for months, and still have no interest in bringing down the price.

Also, I did some research on the m211 axles. Apparently they are face loaders , and they spin opposite of most other axles, making them only compatible with the single range transfer case that the truck came with? This has got to make parts a PAIN to find and more expensive to boot. Plus it has to decrease the value of the axles by quite a bit considering the limitations.

Thanks for the input... its making more more confident about buying the truck.

 

[Stan Leschert]

At that price, why are you still playing computer? Just the winch is worth that!
Restore it, don't part it! An auto trans is much easier to work in the muck.

We know where to find parts, so don't panic.

Report back when you own it!

 

[hendersond]

Welcome Jordan. My M211 came from Mille Lacs, not too far from you. I'm south of you about 3-4 hours. When you trailer it, remember it is over 12,400 pounds!

Watch the title issue if you are driving it on the road.

My gasser M211 starts at -20F every time.

I'm going to look at a engine/trans pulled from a M135 in the morning. It is just good to have an extra. The owner swapped in a 454/TH400 for mud bogging. I will post more when I See it.

As far as the price, I don't think you will find better.

I would not be afraid of that bridge truck either. (Except fuel economy)

Dan

 

[jaw818]

Mille lacs is actually about 1.5 hours straight west of me. We have an excavating company, so trailering is not a problem. @stan... it is finals week (i am in college), So I can't go up and look at it/ buy it till probably next weekend... so until then I am just trying to get as much info as I can about it to be an informed buyer.

@ hendersond, you said a guy swapped a 454/TH400 into his m135, 3 gears and a singe range transfer case is enough to move that truck around in a productive manner? I wouldn't swap as long as the truck is still running good, but in the event of a motor/trans failure, old chevy v8s and 3 speed autos are a dime a dozen, parts are cheap, and I know how to work on them, so it would be an option o would consider. Also, he is using his m135 as a mud bogger? If you get some pics of that thing when you go look, I would love to see it. The motor swap and what ever set up he is running.

Lord willing, next weekend the truck will be on the trailer home.
Ill keep everyone updated with it.

 

[hendersond]

I think he may have had a trans/transfercase and then the original transfercase. So he may have had 2 transfercases and was running rice and cane tractor tires that were as tall as I am.

I appreciate the fact you are willing to keep the original engine and trans. I just finished my trip home with my M220. It really ran 60mph most the way home. Around 6-7 mpg at that speed.

Keep us posted!

 

[jaw818]

He must of bobbed the truck then? I can't imagine tires that tall would fit with the dual rear axles. it would be a cool truck to see. thanks for the info on it. I guess he would have to run the original T-case because otherwise the tires would spin the wrong way.

 

[hendersond]

I have seen the center section taken out and flipped so they spin the right way. Yes he did bob the truck. I'll get some pics later. Any way, what are your plans for the title? Watch for farmers scrapping those trucks. you may be able to get the data plate and title. It would be useful to have a friend who ran a auto recycle center who could keep an eye out for you.

 

[jaw818]

the current owner is going to try and get me a title. we actually have a scrap yard, But in all honesty I have never seen one come through. Hopefully he will be able to get a title from the DMV since the truck is so old and probably hasn't been registered in years. I am going to keep looking for others, but generally they don't have titles, seems to be a problem with them from what i can tell.

 

[hendersond]

Many went to local governments, emergency groups and fire departments. Some were not issued titles because they were considered "federal property" and on loan thru the Civil Defense program. After several years the CD program faded away and the local groups kept the trucks. Some were issued certificates and titled others were just driven. Keep us posted on the title issue.

 

[gerrykan]

jaw818,
Have you read this thread? http://www.steelsoldiers.com/early-deuce/73907-my-gmc-little-update.html

 

[waayfast]

Well, I would personally take a little gamble and go for it myself.

For the price even in the worse case you could sell parts and come out okay. Also since it's not needed for a daily driver you can spend some time getting it titled. Granted, it's not as easy now to get a lost title replaced as it once was but I think it's still do-able--just takes time and effort.

A couple of years ago I chickened out on a truck I could have picked up real cheap or maybe got it for the hauling off. No title and thought I had already too many irons in the fire. Didn't think I wanted to poke thru an extended amount of time going thru the system waiting for the paper work to get straightened out. SSOOOOOO I passed it up.

Guess what!

Those couple of years went by anyway and had I went for it, that rustfree/dent free WWII Studebaker US6 with the complete, original Herc engine would be titled by now and maybe even on the road!! !!! It now resides in several Wally Worlds cleverly disguised as toasters, cheap screw drivers and other assorted junk!

New managment strategy here on the reservation----BIGGER FIRE---MORE IRONS!!

Jim