HMMWV Brush Truck Tragedy

[steelsoldiers]

This was sent to me by another SS mermber:Fire Fighter Fatality Investigation Report F2010-32| CDC/NIOSH

This has nothing to do with the HMMWV itself, but rather a poorly designed, home-brew water delivery system. I know we have a lot of VFD and FD guys on here now researching HMMWV brush trucks so I thought this would be useful. Please be careful!

 

[gringeltaube]

........a poorly designed, home-brew water delivery system......

WOW... sad story! Once again, the ultimate price was paid - due to the general lack of common sense... (actually the less common of all senses...!)

Why air-over-water when there are compact, portable, high-pressure firepumps available? ... which do NOT require such a heavy, thick wall tank for a reservoir?!

That system, @ 75psi max tank pressure would produce around 50psi at the spraying nozzle, which is better than nothing, yes.. but only half the minimum pressure normally required to effectively work from a safe distance...!


G.

 

[nattieleather]

I know a few guys from the rual area of Ohio that are on VFDs and I'm sorry to say that many of them have the additude of "that's good enough." Or "well heck we can make that." So, even though I'm sadden to read this I'm not surpised. This could have been avoided if they had gottern a system designed by a reputable company for mobile use. I hope that any FD that are looking to make mobile systems for a HMMWV take the time to purchase a ready made system and get the training on that system. Training is so important and the one thing that sometimes goes by the wayside.

 

[SGTskully]

WOW sorry to hear this. As a firefighter /emt of 16 yrs ive seen a few accidents, there isnt a good one. Thanx for the info
Chad

 

[187]

SGTskully...like your avatar....so true!

 

[armytruckdriverddsso]

I just wish it was the person that built this mess was the one that got kill. I have built some things that are questionable but were built to what the materials could handle.
SGTskully i like your avatar too. I hung up my dog tags some time ago.

 

[flighht2k5]

I wouldn't wish death on anyone.

 

[3dAngus]

This happened a couple of days ago just a few miles from my home. Maintenance is important. Good maintenance saves lives, but you will never find any statistics on how many lives have ever been saved.

Consider the possibility of someone's kids in this school bus. What a tragedy that would be. Everybody was safely evacuated.

By the way, the fire started in the engine compartment. I would have never figured a school bus would be so full of flamable material to sweep throughout however. I do recall hearing the fire engines off in the distance.

 

[panshark]

Gringeltaube-- I'm not the hydraulics guru, but wouldn't you have to have more than 50psi of air to get 50 psi of water at the nozzle? As you mentioned, you may have to exceed the safe pressure rating of the tank just to operate the apparatus at a safe distance. With no danger indicators, of course, until the system fails at the weakest point.

With what the report mentioned regarding the inappropriate pressure gauge (o to 800) and the nozzle operator's proximity to the vehicle, it makes me wonder what's not included in the report. How was the system adjusted to remedy the lack of pressure? Did visual inspection of the gauge indicate "almost zero" pressure, and was the pressure cranked up a few notches?

I do agree with gringeltaube on the system design--air over water--as largely being the culprit in this time-bomb. If the report's indication of a possible faulty regulator is correct, then that pressurized tank could have killed everyone in that truck, if it had been occupied. Just look at how the tank itself smashed forward when it failed.

 

[gringeltaube]

........wouldn't you have to have more than 50psi of air to get 50 psi of water at the nozzle? ........

Yes, that's what I said: estimating not much over 50psi - size and type of nozzle depending, IF (BIG IF!) that system in question had the tank pressurized to its max. safe working pressure of 75psi, only ...

For reference: even small, compact forest fire fighting vehicles (like this one) have a pump that puts out min. 250 gal/min at 15bar (=217psi)!
Most engine driven, portable pumps (like these, i.e.) work at min. 7bar (100psi); at a considerable high flow rate!
Or look at this really compact pump, here: only 60lbs and puts out 20GPM at 125psi!

What I'am trying to say is that any FWD off-road vehicle - in this case a HUMVEE, can easily be converted to be used as fire-engine by just carrying a relatively flat built, baffled reservoir plus such a portable pump, plus reel; hoses; etc.

Or should I say there is NO EXCUSE...: pressurized air-over-liquid systems should ALL be retired/ replaced... NOW?!


G.

 

[swbradley1]

My Dad was a volunteer firefighter in Ohio for thirteen years. To my knowledge because every tax levy passed they always had the best equipment.

It is sad that this dept may have been strapped for cash and went the "build it yourself route" and now a firefighter is dead because of it.

 

[panshark]

...any FWD off-road vehicle - in this case a HUMVEE, can easily be converted to be used as fire-engine by just carrying a relatively flat built, baffled reservoir plus such a portable pump, plus reel; hoses; etc.

Or should I say there is NO EXCUSE...: pressurized air-over-liquid systems should ALL be retired/ replaced... NOW?!


G.

I agree. Especially when the issue at hand pertains to equipment that peoples' lives depend on.

 

[Coal Cracker]

This kind of Ignorance really pisses me off, now some kid paid the price because of stupidity!

I see this kind of blacksmithing / rigging all the time and my blood just boils.

 

[combatmech]

Just asking....How are VFD's funded? Is it through city/county or state/federal funding?
Would better funding for equipment prevented this?
Since my time in aviation, (23+ years) reading any kind of mishap report gets harder and harder.....Hind sight is 20/20..... I would like to think that some one might have thought the set up of the vehicle wasn't a good idea and yet said nothing. It takes one person to stop the safety chain from breaking down.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Pressure vessel= safety valve

No if, ors, or buts. Sad that man died because one small component was left out of the system.

 

[MRFD715]

Just asking....How are VFD's funded? Is it through city/county or state/federal funding?
Would better funding for equipment prevented this?
Since my time in aviation, (23+ years) reading any kind of mishap report gets harder and harder.....Hind sight is 20/20..... I would like to think that some one might have thought the set up of the vehicle wasn't a good idea and yet said nothing. It takes one person to stop the safety chain from breaking down.

Funding all depends on how the department is set up. For the department I'm on the funding come from local taxes. The residents and landowners in our Fire District (~70 sq. miles) are levied a tax for fire protection from the Township(rural) or city that they live in. The governing board of the township then distributes the money to the FD's in our county based on the percentage of the area of each Township each FD covers.

The city and townships that we protect are at their maximum allowable millage for Fire Protection and it still doesn't give us near enough money to keep things updated like they should be. Our FD gets a little less than $40,000 a year to pay for the utilities for the station, fuel and maintenance for the trucks, maintenance for equipment, and last of all, new equipment. After you do all of that there is not any money left to buy new apparatus (trucks).

We always apply for grants at all levels, but have yet to land one that will help us update trucks. We were able to purchase a new pumper this year to replace a 32 year old truck that was just tired. This only happened because the Firemen themselves were able to raise $100,000 to put towards it, that was 50% of the purchase price.

So for us, homemade equipment & military surplus are just a way of life. Don't get me wrong, we put an emphasis on safety and training to avoid accidents and keep everyone's skills sharp. And we're all very proud to serve our community no matter what we have for a budget or equipment.

Hope that somewhat answers your question.

 

[bfdvollie]

Like MR's department ours is funded by our city's general fund. Our average budget is $110k. and we have 11 members right now plus we have members on the local search and rescue team and hazmat team. A brush rig is a min 65k so we jumped at the chance for a free truck.

We're using a custom built aluminum tank that is going to fit low on the HMMWV to keep the CoG low and a gasoline engine high pressure punp (92 psi) The tank will be held in place with the help of a custom headache rack.

 

[Heavysteven]

Whats sad is that poor kid lost his life because someone forgot a pressure relief valve. Furthermoore its looks like someone thought they could build a cheap super soaker.

 

[B3.3T]

Whats sad is that poor kid lost his life because someone forgot a pressure relief valve. Furthermoore its looks like someone thought they could build a cheap super soaker.

They forgot a lot more than a relief valve. There was enough stored pressure to have overwhelmed a relief valve and still failed as it did. This was a death trap and someone should be in jail for it.

 

[lacoda56]

Always a shame to see someone die, especially because of someone elses stupidity! But with all the portable pumping systems available, this could possibly be the most moronic idea I've heard of barring the winners of the darwin awards.