ldt bellhousing SAE size.

[ken]

I'm tring to find out what SAE size the bellhousings on the multi's are. I know there is a adaptor plate to drop down to the 3052 tranny. Does anyone know off hand what size the bellhousing is? And what size the adaptor plate is also? I'm looking and using a multi for a genset. Thanks.

 

[m-35tom]

the ldt is sae #2, the trans is sae #3

 

[hot rod deuce]

Im not sure that is quite acurate. I used to swear that was the deal but I have a 5.9 on the shop floor with a number two. its about 18" inside. the LDT is closer to 19". I think the LDT might be something odd. the ring is #3 for sure on the tranny. What I was trying to do was use the adapter to take my #2 cummins down to a #3 so I could put a TX200 allison (6 speed) on the cummins. When I came up with the idea I thought hey "ill use that extra LDT adapter". After I gathered it all up the adapter ring is BIGGER than the #2 on the cummins. Just ordered the #3 bell that is on the motor in the Hot Rod Deuce for 700 bucks. If you need bell numbers I have them.

Also for any motor swapers try to get to the 14" clutch in a #2. The 13# in a number three is just a little light. If you do have to go with a #3 make use you opt for the double clutch, its not much more and the spacer needed is only like 100 bucks.

 

[spicergear]

HRD, I had that EXACT problem when I went to put the CAT V8 in my deuce. I think the multifuel may be a #1 but it's not a true one because there is one or two bolt holes moved from true SAE patterns. Like around the recess for the winch drive shaft, etc. I found the dimensions online for the SAE patterns and drew them out on AutoCAD, the #1, #2 of the CAT, and #3 of the trans bell. I had a buddy print them out on a large plotter at 1:1 scale then overlayed that sheet onto the factory aluminum adapter between the multifuel and the trans bell. I aligned the larger patterns, then center punched the middle pattern that I needed for the CAT, then drilled them out.

I then took it to another buddy that had some big machines and had him mill off the step on the adapter plate so it would mate flat with the CAT. This is how I got them to bolt together. Oh, the patterns are pretty close together when just going from one to the next without skipping a number so I had to grind small reliefs into the trans bell then use Allen head bolts to bolt the adapter plate to the CAT after it had been bolted to the trans bell. I'll grab a picture today. The multifuel's large pattern is still visible on the plate.

 

[gringeltaube]

See chart.

 

[m-35tom]

• 
  
  A = ID
  B = Bolt circle diam.
  C = OD
  D = # mounting bolts
  E = Bolt hole diam.
  
  SAE# A B C D E
  
  00 31" 33 1/2" 34 3/4" 16 17/32"
  0 25 1/2 26 3/4 28 16 17/32
  1/2 23 24 3/8 25 1/2 12 17/32
  1 20 1/8 20 7/8 21 3/4 12 15/32
  2 17 5/8 18 3/8 19 1/4 12 13/32
  3 16 1/8 16 7/8 17 3/4 12 13/32
  4 14 1/4 15 15 7/8 12 13/32
  5 12 3/8 13 1/8 14 8 13/32
  6 10 1/2 11 1/4 12 1/8 8 13/32
  

ok now what is the ldt??

 

[spicergear]

Well...here's the pic I had mentioned-

 

[gringeltaube]

Re: RE: ldt bellhousing SAE size.

Im not sure that is quite acurate...... I think the LDT might be something odd. the ring is #3 for sure on the tranny....

You are right! The bolt circle on the Deuce Multifuel bell housings is 18 7/8" and there are 13 studs (3/8 diam.), unevenly distributed, so it's NOT a SAE std.
The 5ton versions LDS456-1 and -1A are SAE#2
Our trannys indeed fit any SAE#3 housing (or adapter).

Gerhard

 

[m-35tom]

RE: Re: RE: ldt bellhousing SAE size.

so the thing to do is put lds bell on ldt and have true sae2??

 

[gringeltaube]

You will have the SAE#2 pattern but remember the 5ton bell has the starter on the "wrong" side and engine mounts are different.
So not in a Deuce but for a multifuel genset it could be interesting!

 

[ken]

Thanks for the info. I have a LDS in the can with a knocking rod. So i swipe the bell housing off it. I got the idea from a genset that clark truck parts has. But they want too much for it. I can get a gen head here much cheeper and build my own skid. All i need is a gov. I realize that this will be more power than i could ever use but i'll never worry about over loading it.

 

[yorkgulch2]

Not sure I followed all of that.
On an m35a2 all LDT's are the engine and engine end of the bell housing are SAE 2? With minor variations?
And the tranny end of bell housing and tranny SAE 3?

 

[gringeltaube]

1) Engine block to bell housing, no question, same pattern for all applications.
2) Bell housing to adapter ring (LDS 427, LD 465 and LDT 465 engines, deuce application): odd pattern, 13 bolts, NO SAE std.
3) Adapter ring to deuce tranny: SAE#3
4) 5ton Multifuel (LDS465s) bell housing to 5ton tranny: SAE#2

Clear enough?

 

[spicergear]

If I may add- deuce application engine bellhousing pattern has like 8 or 9 bolts that are of the SAE pattern then has the other several moved. For instance if you go back up and look at the pic I posted; the two bottom most holes in the aluminum adapter ARE on pattern for typical SAE. The next two going clockwise are not because of the recess in the plate for the winch driveshaft. It's stuff like that. That adapter would bolt to the next SAE std pattern (I believe a #1) engine with most of the bolts. For the others that are odd, it's very likely that maybe all but 1 or 2 of the SAE's 12 could be used.

 

[gringeltaube]

Obviously it wasn't clear enough....! So here some pics and ... pls take a look at that chart again! This is a SAE #2 to SAE#3 adapter ring. Bolt circles are 18 3/8" and 16 7/8" respectively and holes are equidistant. Same for a SAE#1 but bolt circle is 20 7/8".
A little boring, I know, but...
Like I said before: Only the 5ton MF bell housings are #2. That ring out of a 7.3 Navistar perfectly fits on that LDS465-1A housing! But all of those 13 studs of the deuce MF are on a BC of 18 7/8" which is completely odd!
And by looking at your pic, your CAT isn't a #2 either!? BC might be 18 3/8" but the bolts/studs are not equidistant.... And BTW, you said you milled the back side of the adapter flat??? How did you do to exactly center it to the bell?

Hope this ......!

 

[spicergear]

Huh...ya got me then. I must have been smart at one time or another. Seriously, I drew up the three patterns from dimensions I found online for the SAE patterns. HA...(LOL) I can't remember doing this, but I could see myself drilling into the bell housing and moving those two holes in so I wouldn't have three overlapping holes like that. That 2-3 adapter ring you have pictured is what I was hunting but couldn't find at the time. CAT wanted GIGA$$$ for an adapter that was too thick. As far as exactly centering the bell- I put all twelve bolts in and there was very, very little movement. On big truck parts and having machine shop experience with mass production tolerances that can occur...I'm quite fine with eyeballing .020" on an assembly of this type.

 

[gringeltaube]

You know that the max. allowed radial runout (crank to bell hsg, adapter, tranny, etc.) is only .0025" ! If after assembly your dial indicator reading wasn't more than .005" it's OK. And if you didn't check it at all and it runs fine, it's OK too!!

 

[tacoma]

I like your attitude, Gringeltaube. You're exactly right.


sooooo anyone got any SAE Cummins adapters laying around?

 

[simp5782]

I searched and found this thread cause I am in the middle of getting my LDS pulled out and a replacement engine put in. I was looking at a Navistar 6.9 IDI but have sense scratched the idea since my personal truck needs the engine instead. So i found an LDT-465-1C near me for a great price. have seen videos of it running on the stand and what not as well. Going to replace the gaskets as well. I know you have to swap the oil pan and the pickup around. What adapter ring do I need to mount the LDT pictured below into My M-61. Will the same clutch for the LDS work for the LDT?

 

[gringeltaube]

......................What adapter ring do I need to mount the LDT pictured below into My M-61. Will the same clutch for the LDS work for the LDT?

Why adapter? Where is the problem? All you have to do is swap bell-housings, for many reasons.
On your old LDS you should have one like this one. It is a direct bolt-on to the LDT engine block. (No adapter ring needed)
The 5ton clutch will only work in the 5ton bellhousing.


G.