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Rejuvenate 6TMF battery

hunderliggur

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Lothian, MD
Well, after I drained the front battery by leaving the lights on all day it won't recharge. I got a $70 charger from AutoZone that detects a performs desulfurization (Schumacher SpeedCharge SSC-1500A) put it on last night and it has charged from 12.3 at starting to 12.6 now (without the charger my multimeter reads 11.0 volts) I hope this works since it looks like replacement 6TMFs are $250 each.
 

Adam86CUCV

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Why not get a Group 31 sized battery for around $100? I picked one up at a battery shop in Frederick with 950 CCA for just under $100 a couple weeks ago.
 

MarcusOReallyus

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Virginia
I have the same charger. They can only do so much. If the battery is shot, the battery is shot.

It may have been marginal before the discharge.
 

o1951

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(without the charger my multimeter reads 11.0 volts) I hope this works since it looks like replacement 6TMFs are $250 each.
Uh - Oh. No good! Should read at least mid 12's without charger. 11 means one cell is shorted. You can add distilled water if needed and try the charger again, but I would not count on that battery. Going to let you down someplace.
 
Last edited:

SCSG-G4

PSVB 3003
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If any of the cells are shorted, it will never recover. You will need to test each cell. Here's how: First, remove all the caps, then with a multimeter set on the 10 volt range, put the neg lead on the neg terminal and dip the pos lead in the acid of the first cell (closest to the terminal). It should read about half a volt. Next, move the pos lead to the next cell (in the pattern starting with the neg terminal in the upper left, go down, over, up, over, down) and the neg lead in the 1st cell acid. You need to see at least half a volt between cells, and more is better. If there is zero voltage between the acid of two cells in a row, it's shorted and is ready to be recycled. Float voltage should be between 13.5 and 13.7 volts. HTH.
 

Skinny

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Portsmouth, NH
Batteries are not the place to be saving any money. You could buy two new Group 31's and that charger for the cost of one 6TMF. Not worth the chance because walking takes way too much time. SCSG-G4, that is a great DVOM test on battery cells. I hope I can remember that!
 

NDT

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Camp Wood/LC, TX
6TMF's can only be relied upon for 2 years. I know others will chime in that they get 6+ years from them, but that is not my luck. Once they are sulfated, you can hot charge them for days and they still will not come back. So I have found, your results may vary. I have switched to 31's.
 

peapvp

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I am currently working on a Battery Charger/Equalizer for the 6TMF / Lead Acid Batteries.
I studied the chemical reaction during stratification and have found that there are only two ways of dealing with this issue:

A: Equalization Charges from 1 to 4 hours at 16.5 Volts with a current limit at 2 to 4 Amps
B: Pulse charging at 16.5 Volts with a current Limit of 1 Amp for several weeks

I have one 6TMF with one stratified cell here and I am using this battery as demonstration unit. Video to follow.

One way to verify Stratification is to measure the Resistance of the electrolyte of each cell.

I use a syringe to siphon off some electrolyte (100ml) and test the resistance of the electrolyte

A: Good Cell Electrolyte, charged to 2.55V around 75 to 100 Ohm
B: Bad Cell Electrolyte, charged to 250mV to 500mV has around 200 to 300 Ohm

The resistance increases with the increase of stratification. The H2O has a much higher resistance then H2SO4 which is electrolyte

So the resistance is a proportional measurement of the state of the H2SO4 according to Boltzmann's Entropy Equation

Please sent me a PM if you are interested in one of the new chargers.
 

o1951

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Bergen County, NJ
I got 2 very nice pulse chargers for free from discarded jump start packs.
I took one apart to see if or how they regulated charging, and found that it had a pulse charger inside.
Extracted them and put them in small cases I had.

Pulse charging will definitely extend the life of a flooded lead acid battery. So far, I used they to recover a group 31 and a group 65 battery.

IMHO, the best way to tell the state of charge of cells in wet cell battery is to use the tried and well tested hydrometer.
Below is a charge status chart.

OPEN CIRCUIT VOLTAGE- The voltage of a battery when it is not delivering or receiving power. Open circuit voltage is one of the primary methods of determining a battery's state of charge (see chart below). When using this method to determine state of charge, always wait at least two hours after the battery has come off of a charge or has completed a discharge.
State
of Charge
12 volt
Battery
6 volt
Battery
Specific
Gravity
100%
12.7
6.3
1.265
75%
12.4
6.2
1.225
50%
12.2
6.1
1.190
25%
12.0
6.0
1.155
0%
11.9
5.9
1.120
 

peapvp

Well-known member
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Basehor, KS
We got another test battery. Regular Car Battery. Sulfur built up is quite visible. Case is bulged, but not cracked. Measured zero Volts. Added app 1/4 Gallon Distilled Water.

Battery is now under going our High Voltage Pulse Charge. We will keep you posted.

First Bat test desulph 3226014 005.jpg

First Bat test desulph 3226014 002.jpg

First Bat test desulph 3226014 003.jpg
 

Dodge man

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Fl
That's all fine and dandy (assuming it works) but what about shorted cells? How do you plan on dealing with those?

Does your resistance tests of the electrolyte tell you anything that a standard battery hydrometer doesn't? Hydrometer test battery condition by measuring the density of the electrolyte. A fully charged battery will contain much more sulphuric acid than a discharged one and since sulphuric acid is much denser than water, a density test will accurately determine each battery cell's charge condition and without the dangers of having to extract and handle battery acid.


I am currently working on a Battery Charger/Equalizer for the 6TMF / Lead Acid Batteries.
I studied the chemical reaction during stratification and have found that there are only two ways of dealing with this issue:

A: Equalization Charges from 1 to 4 hours at 16.5 Volts with a current limit at 2 to 4 Amps
B: Pulse charging at 16.5 Volts with a current Limit of 1 Amp for several weeks

I have one 6TMF with one stratified cell here and I am using this battery as demonstration unit. Video to follow.

One way to verify Stratification is to measure the Resistance of the electrolyte of each cell.

I use a syringe to siphon off some electrolyte (100ml) and test the resistance of the electrolyte

A: Good Cell Electrolyte, charged to 2.55V around 75 to 100 Ohm
B: Bad Cell Electrolyte, charged to 250mV to 500mV has around 200 to 300 Ohm

The resistance increases with the increase of stratification. The H2O has a much higher resistance then H2SO4 which is electrolyte

So the resistance is a proportional measurement of the state of the H2SO4 according to Boltzmann's Entropy Equation

Please sent me a PM if you are interested in one of the new chargers.
 

Dodge man

New member
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Location
Fl
In for results of your tests. BUT I just watched your video and I think you have a severe misunderstanding of the chemistry of LA batteries. For one thing those crystals (white powder) that you show in your photos above are not sulphur, they're most likely Lead Sulphate. Sulphur is yellow and there should be NO free sulphur in or on a LA battery, under any circumstances. In the video at around the twelve minute mark you also made frequent mention of the plates in the battery being coated with sulphur. That's incorrect, they actually get coated with Lead Sulphate. In a discharged battery, the Sulphuric acid electrolyte reacts with the plates (Lead Peroxide and pure Lead) and converts them to Lead Sulphate and the acid converts to water. That's why the electrolyte in discharged batteries has a low density, the heavier acid has been converted to lower density water. Lead Sulphate is also an insulator so when the plates are covered in it you effectively have an open circuit. The open circuit prevents any current from flowing out of or into the battery. in other words, the battery can't supply any current nor will it accept a charge. Which brings me to something else about your video. In it you show the battery drawing 30 amps when you connect it to the charger. If it had even one sulphated cell, it would draw little or no current! It looked to me, like you may have had one shorted cell IF anything was wrong with that battery. A shorted cell would also explain why there was no bubbling in that cell. Since it's shorted there would be no voltage available in that cell to break down the water into bubbles. If you had a sulphated cell, then little or or no current would flow in ANY of the cells (since they're connected in series) and you wouldn't get any bubbling in ANY of the cells. In addition, in a battery with a shorted cell, the other cells will bubble excessively since now the charging voltage is applied over only five cells instead of six! And excessive voltage in a cell will cause it to break down the water into hydrogen and oxygen instead of just charging the cell. IMO you need to drill through the top of the case and get to the straps that connect the cells together inside of the battery and measure each cell individually instead of in a series so that you can tell exactly what's going on with each cell.

If you want to send me one of your devices, I'll be happy to try it out on some batteries that have been sitting unused for several years so I'm sure they're heavily sulphated. I also have plenty of test equipment including dummy power loads, HP digital storage O'scopes (HP 54510s), high accuracy HP (and others) meters, HP recording multimeters and piles of HP, Lambda and other CV/CC power supplies up to 4500 volts and 150 amps.

FWIW I think your pulse charging idea to recover sulphated batteries has merit. The problem is that the cells in a battery are connected in series internally. That means that you can't access just one cell for testing or charging without going though the other five cells! As you noted in your video anything that you do to try and rejuvenate a bad cell is going to affect the other cells and in most cases they are going to mitigate what ever method you try to use. I think the only effective method to recover a bad cell is going to require that someone cut or drill into the case to access both terminals of the affected cell directly so that it can be operated on directly and without affecting the other cells.
 

peapvp

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Basehor, KS
Thank you Dodge man for your detailed explanation. I am using stratification / sulfur / sulfur crystallization synonymous with Lead Sulfur.

The 6TMF had been partially recovered at the point of the video shoot, hence the high current with the Lester Charger. I actually mentioned this that the battery was not taking any charge prior to being pulsed for 32+ hours.

I used the trickle/float charge function with a setting of 13.6V and 1.1 Amps to finish the recovery of the stratified cell. This battery is working fine now.

As you pointed out correctly, we are dealing with Lead Sulphate. Lead Sulphate in crystalline form is white. Only plain Sulfur is yellow.

I will get in touch with you when the final version of our Equalization Charger is ready.

Thanks again



Lead (II) Sulfur:
Lead(II)_sulfate.jpg


Sulfur:
799px-Sulfur-sample.jpg
 

peapvp

Well-known member
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Location
Basehor, KS
That's all fine and dandy (assuming it works) but what about shorted cells? How do you plan on dealing with those?

Does your resistance tests of the electrolyte tell you anything that a standard battery hydrometer doesn't? Hydrometer test battery condition by measuring the density of the electrolyte. A fully charged battery will contain much more sulphuric acid than a discharged one and since sulphuric acid is much denser than water, a density test will accurately determine each battery cell's charge condition and without the dangers of having to extract and handle battery acid.

The Equalization Charger cannot recover shorted cells.

The resistance test is more accurate to test a stratified cell's electrolyte. When the electrolyte is stratified then it is primarily H02. HO2 has a higher resistance then electrolyte. The resistance of electrolyte also will change with the state of charge.

A fully charged cell's electrolyte can also be tested via current. Just take a sample of the electrolyte and measure the current flowing between the two probes of your meter. 100ml of fully charged electrolyte will provide 50mA of current for a short period of time.

Both tests, Resistance and Current are more precise then the Hydrometer and can give you a better idea on much stratified Lead Sulfur is still left in the cell.
 

o1951

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Location
Bergen County, NJ
Stratified: beds or layers. The formation of liquid layers.

That does not happen to the electrolyte in a lead/acid wet cell battery. Unless the electrolyte is frozen, or cell is under heavy discharge, it is uniform throughout.
 
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