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Price for a 803A in good shape

jaxbill

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Hello,

I've been able to look at past auctions and closed eBay sales to understand the range of prices for a 803A. However, this doesn't tell me the true condition vs. the kind of work that was ultimately needed.

What does a 803A cost these days if we're talking about one in really good condition?

For example, about an hour drive from me, I see a 4,000 hour unit, non-trailer, with a $2,800 asking price. He says all is good except a fuel gauge and lists some recent repairs.

Thanks

Bill
 

porkysplace

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Hello,

I've been able to look at past auctions and closed eBay sales to understand the range of prices for a 803A. However, this doesn't tell me the true condition vs. the kind of work that was ultimately needed.

What does a 803A cost these days if we're talking about one in really good condition?

For example, about an hour drive from me, I see a 4,000 hour unit, non-trailer, with a $2,800 asking price. He says all is good except a fuel gauge and lists some recent repairs.

Thanks

Bill

Probably not a bad price known running working unit, This past hurricane season brought generator prices way up .
 

jaxbill

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Probably not a bad price known running working unit, This past hurricane season brought generator prices way up .
Thanks. From reading the archives, it seems a lot of engine hours isn't a concern to most folks.

I was surprised to see so many low hour units on the gov auction site.

Edit - that unit is already sold. Maybe it was a good price.
 
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Zed254

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If you study the historical sales on GovPlanet you can see the condition of the units by the pictures and descriptions and the money they brought at auction. Last year at this time 803s with less than 100 hours sitting on a trailer were going for around $2,500 at Letterkenny (PA). I paid $2,700 for mine which was a wee bit high for that unit at that time. Same units from last few sales have been going for $4,000 +. Before the hurricanes a single trailer with TWO low hour generators were going for the same money as I paid for one. Even the 400Hz units are bringing big bucks in recent auctions (probably a regrettable mistake) . Study the past GovPlanet sales from whatever site you plan to do business with, rank in order of most recent sale, look for the hours you want and take some notes. Look at the pics. Mine was a clean machine with batteries that ran in the sales pics and generated both volts and Hz sitting on a 2012 trailer with nubs still on the tires. A 53 hour generator without a fuel pump just sold for <$2,000. I would be afraid of a cannibalized unit but the price sure looked sweet.
 

jaxbill

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If you study the historical sales on GovPlanet you can see the condition of the units by the pictures and descriptions and the money they brought at auction.
I am probably missing something obvious but why would a generator with so few hours even be up for auction? Aren't they sold only after being used extensively?
 

Guyfang

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Perhaps better said, a new generation generator is coming on line. At some point in the service life of a system, there are technical advancements that make it worth getting rid of an old system. The wisdom of this decision is often questionable. I tend to believe the KISS principle holds a lot of water. Keep It Simple, Stupid. Be that as it may, at some point in time, it was decided that the current power generation fleet needs to be replaced.

I have seen and worked on 4 generations of power generation. I have to admit, each HAS been an improvement. Of course, the start up phase of a new system can be a little rough. Almost everyone, (and I am one of them!!!) today, raves about how dependable, how long lasting, how easy to work on, for instance, the MEP-006A, 60 KW generator is. Few people here in the forum remember (or have the slightest idea about) the first few years that the 006A life. I sure do. We were issued the sets in 1977. We got 13 sets. Six weeks later, 60% of the fleet was deadlined for speed switches and static exciters. It did not get better for a few years. There was no difference in the other gen sets of this time period. And the new generation generator is no different. While I will not question the wisdom of the change to a new generation generator family, I will question the need for a generator that has an ECU that cost as much as a MEP-802A. I have been told by people in the know, that it the new generation set are taken care or properly, the MTBF, (mean time between failure) is about 1000 hours. No TQG, comes even close.

The generator set you THINK is new, low hour, is in all probability older, and been through at least one if not two or more resets. When a gen set gets a new hour meter, you have no idea how many hours it in fact, has. And, an hour meter can also go bad. So it gets changed. And rarely is it documented. So just how old is the set? You don't know. And, (Mrs Wright, my English teacher would be screaming about all these ands) a new hour meter was not always installed during a reset. Build date is no good, for the same reason. Do not place a lot of worth on hours and build date.

LOOK, at the condition. LOOK at compleat nests. These are concrete. You can see, to some extent, in the pictures, these two things. If you can look at the set, touch it, smell it, feel it run, listen to it, even better. I understand that's not the norm. But it's the best way to really tell if a set is worth the price you pay for it. We see lots of people like you ask the same questions you asked in your first post. Our answers don't change. It's worth what you are willing to pay for it.

So the next questions........... Have you dome your homework? What makes you think you need a 803A? Why not a 802A? Or a MEP-002A, or 003A? They might be a good way to save a few bucks. What about buying from a reputable person/company, who will sell you something that is overhauled, or reset, repaired and tested. Might cost more money, but unless you are willing to do the work yourself, AND get smart on the equipment, it still might cost less in the long run.

the ball is in your court.
 

jamawieb

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Don't base a decision on hours because I've had a lot of problems from low hours units. They are just like anything else, if they sit for 10+years unused, gaskets and other materials start to break down. I prefer units with 800 hours or more because I know they have been used, usually without problems. Just my 2 cents.
The government have contracts to purchase a certain number of generators every year, no matter if they need them or not, so a majority of units sit in storage unused. Then after a certain number of years, they have meet their life expectancy and disposed of. :roll:
 

Guyfang

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Upgraded models being issued. Also, hours are based on the last reset / rebuild. Mine is a 2003 reset in 2012, so kinda, sorta new.....for a 14 year old generator.

Here's info on the new models : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?146154-What-is-AMMPS-generators
Your set could have been reset at least two or three times, maybe more. Resets done back in 2004-2010, had no reset data plate put on them. In fact, I never saw a data plate until about 2009 or 2010. Some sets were being reset here in Germany. A reset back then was not the same as now. I saw units come back from down range, that sent gen sets they did not even take with them, into reset. I saw units bring gen sets back that were just worn out, to the bone. And not send them in to reset. They/we fixed them here, in the motor pool.
 

Zed254

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Whoa, Guyfang!!! Are you saying my 14 year old generator ain't NEW???? Not even kinda, sorta??? :beer:

Only thing I've had to change out in ~50 run hours is a Water Temp Gauge and it had a lot of paint chipped off from someone before me tapping on it. It finally gave up the ghost when I TAPPED on it too hard. Interesting that there were no reset tags until more recently. Good info.
 

Suprman

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The newer models that are replacing the TQ gens are more "less trained user" friendly. I believe more plug in and less electrician needed to wire. A well cared for 4000 hour units should be just fine. 2800 was a good price.
 

jaxbill

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So the next questions........... Have you dome your homework? What makes you think you need a 803A? Why not a 802A? Or a MEP-002A, or 003A? They might be a good way to save a few bucks. What about buying from a reputable person/company, who will sell you something that is overhauled, or reset, repaired and tested. Might cost more money, but unless you are willing to do the work yourself, AND get smart on the equipment, it still might cost less in the long run. the ball is in your court.
Thanks for all of the above responses. Very good info. I would rather spend more money upfront so I can hopefully ease into fixing problems rather than starting with a unit that won't power on. I haven't figured out where those reputable sources are just yet. That brings me directly to homework...

Homework - I haven't done anywhere near enough homework yet. I've read through the TM to get a basic familiarity with how these things work. I've spent a few hours reading posts on this forum. I need to spend a lot more time.

Why 10kw? Well, I've calculated that based on what I think I need for other types of generators but I realize that might not apply to a MEP, given that it's overbuilt. 10kW could be too much. I'd love to go smaller if I can make the math add-up. I do have a load shedding system already that will work independent of the generator (i.e. not Generac's proprietary controller-based stuff).

- I have 3.5 ton heat pump. 117 LRA. I need to start that. My 60A blower/evaporator circuit carries 8kW electric heater strips that cycle on possibly a dozen or so nights about 3 months a year. I actually thought I didn't need them until they broke once. I guess I wasn't aware of exactly when that heat pump just can't keep up the exchange.

- I'd love hot water and that's 5,500W.

- Although I have city sewer, I need to run a 110V ejection/grinder pump that needs a little more than 2kW to start and maybe 1000 watts to run, albeit briefly, when the main tank fills up when toilets flush or any faucet runs. It's important because the sewage will back up into the house. I have no idea what the alarm draws.

- On crappy LP generators and given that LP is $3.60/gallon here, I would never consider running my electric range/oven but I do have one of those. No NG here. I'd probably feel good about using the oven if I had the right sized MEP. (Heck, I've read here where folks need that oven and their electric dryer to generate more load.)

- I wouldn't pay more for a bigger generator to run my washer/dryer. I say that until a hurricane puts me out of power for more than 5 days.

Basically I am your typical all electric - city water house except for not having gravity fed city sewer. If I were five hours south, I wouldn't worry much about electric heat but it's a factor. My weather is not quite Miami/Orlando/Tampa weather.
 
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Demoh

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Tampa weather? Hey I resemble that comment.

But yea, homework is a must for getting these units and maintaining them. Its less required if you get a unit that you arent rebuilding yourself, but still highly encouraged.

The homework here will help even if you dont get a MEP but other diesel generators. Wet stacking is a thing so making sure you are sized accordingly is important. My opinion based on the loads you said a 803a would be ideal where a 802a wont be. I say this by my first hand experience with a 2.5 ton heatpump on a 802a. My house is sized for an 802a assuming I dont run everything at once. I have a 803a I can run if I need more power.
 
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jaxbill

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FL
Tampa weather? Hey I resemble that comment.

But yea, homework is a must for getting these units and maintaining them. Its less required if you get a unit that you arent rebuilding yourself, but still highly encouraged.

The homework here will help even if you dont get a MEP but other diesel generators. Wet stacking is a thing so making sure you are sized accordingly is important. My opinion based on the loads you said a 803a would be ideal where a 802a wont be. I say this by my first hand experience with a 2.5 ton heatpump on a 802a. My house is sized for an 802a assuming I dont run everything at once. I have a 803a I can run if I need more power.
You guys are right in that spot where you always have the edge on us. It's just as stupid hot here in July but I think you guys have a slightly nicer winter.

Yeah, don't want to have a wet stacking issue but don't want to be overloading. I don't know the voltage drop when that 117 LRA is occurring but it's still quite a bit more current that I ever expected to find in the specs. I finally bought a good clamp meter and plan on taking some better measurements.

My sewer pump caused my Honda EU7000 to overload this summer although I was running a portable AC at the time. Maybe that compressor was cycling at the same time. I don't want to screw the sizing part up again. I also need to talk with my HVAC folks about the possibility of a soft start kit not voiding my warranty or causing any problems during normal operations. I'm sure you know the pain and expensive of replacing these systems in FL. I'd rather have to build/buy a load bank than call the HVAC guys for repair work.

Thanks
 

Guyfang

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Whoa, Guyfang!!! Are you saying my 14 year old generator ain't NEW???? Not even kinda, sorta??? :beer:

Only thing I've had to change out in ~50 run hours is a Water Temp Gauge and it had a lot of paint chipped off from someone before me tapping on it. It finally gave up the ghost when I TAPPED on it too hard. Interesting that there were no reset tags until more recently. Good info.
Why do you care? If it runs good for you, then smile and be happy! It's a crap shoot. Could be only one reset. Could be several. There is also here, this "urban legend" about gen sets standing for 10 years in a warehouse. During my time on active, I never personally saw such a thing. Won't say it's not possible, but never seen it.

True, I have seen units that just plain old don't use their power generation. The sets spent years in a corner, and only came out for inspections. Keep in mind that units often, when going to training areas far from home, do not always take their own equipment. They pull into town, get issued equipment, use and abuse it, and blow out of town a later date. That's an incredible amount of money saved. The units gear dosnt get trashed, and they can deploy with gear that's in good shape. And lots of units deploy down range, the same way. They pick up gear down range. It's all a crap shoot.
 

Zed254

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Why do you care? If it runs good for you, then smile and be happy! It's a crap shoot. Could be only one reset. Could be several. ........It's all a crap shoot.
Guy - I'm pulling your leg. Didn't you see my smiling beers? I am quite pleased with the results of my 803 crap shoot and understand that you really don't know what you got until you got it home and it's running. I am more pleased with my 802: by bid time I had learned to not fear a unit with ~450 hours and I got a much better deal.

Prost!! :beer:
 

Guyfang

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I wasn't upset. More like in a hurry, and just wrote without thinking about how it sounds.

I think people pay way too much attention to hours, an reset. A long, long, long, long time ago, I got a Stewert and Stevens 45 KW, model 52300, 400 hertz gen set from a unit going bazooooooms up. It was the biggest piece of poo poo I had ever seen, then and now. Countless missing parts. Countless bad parts the loosing unit put on, to make it kinda look somewhat like a gen set. Took me 6-8 months to fix it. Dosnt should like long, but I had 24 hour duty, every second day. I was the busiest one legged paper hanger you ever saw. Anyway, I got this set running, and put over 10,000 hours on it. It ran like a top!! Since then, I have always felt that there is no bad sets, just bad repair people, and a lack of parts. Even if it's junk, it can be fixed. It's just a shame so many sets are being trashed, on the way to the auction block. Or coming from people who are too lazy to do the right thing. And at these prices right now, man it hurts to listen to you guys.
 

Demoh

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... I have always felt that there is no bad sets, just bad repair people, and a lack of parts. Even if it's junk, it can be fixed. ....
I agree with this statement. With the maintenance I do on pretty much anything, I push the service life of whatever it is way out. My vehicles are all 'in for the long haul' type of maintenance and I expect these generators as lifetime generators for me.

Like for these gen sets, Ive converted over to a silicon free ELC 600,000 coolant after much research. Like the green stuff will have the silicon drop out over time which is abrasive and lowers lifespan of waterpumps. Thats just one example. For the waterlogged set that I have its not whether or not I can fix it and bring it up to spec, its whether or not it is worth it. Well it wouldnt be worth it for me to rebuild the engine as I have other options available (IE cannibalizing an 813 to fix this particular 803.)
 

jaxbill

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Are there changes for certain years? Trying to understand if a certain year or later is better than others.
 
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