Sherpa winch vs PTO winch

[MudMarine]

Did a quick search about this and didn't see any threads do a straight up comparison on these, especially recently. So I've got a Wo/W truck and have been looking at the options to put one on for the inevitable rainy day when I'll need/wish I had one. I've got a line on a complete PTO set up for only a few hundred more than the 24v 25,000lbs Sherpa winch, but I've got a few questions that make me wonder.

Is one much better than the other and why?

Can you run the PTO winch while using the truck in gear?
The operators TM states to put the transmission in N but it only talks about winching other objects, not self recovery.

I imagine the Sherpa winch would be an easier install with just having to run cables, but then again the PTO winch is designed to bolt right in.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery? I mean pros! I did try to do my research here before posting but if I missed the obvious stuff then flame on!

EDIT: sorry if this should be in the hot rod board, please move if need be Mods

 

[simp5782]

Pto is more work to install. And it doesnt work if the truck goes dead in the water. The 18v warns are a good winch for a deuce as well. Swampdonkey has the winch installed on his 5 ton and I do mine but I have yet to finish my hookup and he hasnt even tried his either. A buddy of mine does have the 25k mounted on his step deck and double lined it will dead drag a M923 on 4 flats up the ramps with the brakes locked. For the price I bought the sherpa for the amount that I would use a winch.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Random thoughts in no particular order.

Let's see. PTO can run all day long without overheating. The truck however, needs to run as well.

Yes, you can operate the truck in gear. Interestingly, first gear low range and low gear on the winch net about the same speed. In other words, the line speed on the winch will move the truck at about the same speed as compound low.

The install, while not difficult, is time consuming. The PTO shifter bolts to the master cylinder so if your Air Force deuce has a split system, could be a snag.

Electric winches are dependable but long recoveries can be taxing on them and your electrical system. They are also fairly easy to install.

 

[MudMarine]

Recovery4x4, thanks for the info on the master cylinder! My truck is one of the lucky few (as I see it) with the dual brake systems! I didn't even think that would come into play!

It's good to hear that the Sherpa's still have a good wrap, I figured the 25k for 1100 was pretty unbeatable, but to be honest I didn't even consider anything below 20k, like the warn, I was worried it wouldn't have enough umph for a 13k truck once mired in the mud. I did see one thread where someone did some math that supported their use but are they really that much cheaper? I'd definitely hate to drop big money on a winch only to be still stuck with a burnt out winch or snapped line wishing I'd gone bigger... Course I know that can still happen with any winch.

I'm a little surprised that the PTO seems to be such a chore to install being that it was literally designed to fit... But then again it is the military and the lowest bidder!

Thanks for the input both of y'all, still looking to hear more opinions because why not haha

 

[Dock Rocker]

Don’t discount the warn 18k severe duty. It’s what’s on the MRAP and many other trucks that are larger than your deuce. One snatch block solves your weight problem.

They are cheap ($500 ish) surplus. Also you can order parts directly from warn. I have used them with great success over the last few years. I even have its little brother the 12k severe duty on my hmmwv.


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[cattlerepairman]

I'd definitely hate to drop big money on a winch only to be still stuck with a burnt out winch or snapped line wishing I'd gone bigger... Course I know that can still happen with any winch.

A crane will never reach far enough or lift enough and a winch will never be powerful enough - that is a law of nature. So, I think you are doing the right thing by putting the highest capacity winch on it that you can get/can afford.

The part that I have not seen addressed is safety. Using the electric winch is a true one-person operation. The PTO winch, really, is not designed to be operated by one person. You can, most of us do, but you really need to be on the ball. The only safety device on the PTO winch is the shear pin (some might argue to some extent, the drum brake). I, personally, prefer hydraulic winches but electric is a close second.

An empty Deuce w/w, fuel and driver weighs about 6.7 tons (13400 lbs). Recovery wisdom says that if the truck is stuck up to the sidewalls of the tires (so up to the tire bead), you need 100% of the truck weight as pulling power. Up to the hubs, you need 200% and if it is up to the frame, you need 300%.

Add to that if you need to pull uphill, if it is really sticky, clingy mud etc.

So, a 25,000 lbs winch is not crazy at all. You will have the advantage that you will need a snatch block less often. The PTO winch came with a snatch block as standard equipment for a reason. The 10,000 lbs straight line pull won't cut it with a loaded truck and/or stuck deeply enough and if you cannot unspool your winch cable far enough and have to winch on the third or fourth layer, good luck with the pulling power that remains.
As DockRocker points out, even the bigger MRAPs need the snatch block.

Good luck with your winch attachment and please post pictures of how you do it and how it works out for you!

 

[Dock Rocker]

Whatever you choose several properly rated Crosby shackles and at minimum 2 properly rated snatch blocks are a must for a big truck recovery.

Single lining on a big truck is a bad idea no matter what winch you choose. Use your winch in its best configuration on the last or next to the last layer on the drum and get all of the mechanical advantage from your recovery gear you can.


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[clinto]

Random thoughts in no particular order.

Let's see. PTO can run all day long without overheating. The truck however, needs to run as well.

Yes, you can operate the truck in gear. Interestingly, first gear low range and low gear on the winch net about the same speed. In other words, the line speed on the winch will move the truck at about the same speed as compound low.

The install, while not difficult, is time consuming. The PTO shifter bolts to the master cylinder so if your Air Force deuce has a split system, could be a snag.

Electric winches are dependable but long recoveries can be taxing on them and your electrical system. They are also fairly easy to install.

These are all correct and I agree with all of them.

I would like to add a comment about the 1987-1989 USAF contract dual circuit trucks.

They do use a more modern aluminum master cylinder that does not have the provisions for the winch pto shifter to attach to.

And AM General deserves a lot of credit for this: they cast an ear into the dual circuit master cylinder/pedal assy. mount for the shifter. So if you steal a winch off any 1986-older M44 series truck, you simply bolt the shift lever directly to the master cylinder mount and it'll work. You'll just do away with the u-shaped bracket that mounted the lever directly to the master on the older models.

So simple - "hey, we're doing this new mount, what about the older trucks with winches that get upgraded? We need to make this new mount backwards compatible".

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...-temporarily&p=1952125&viewfull=1#post1952125

 

[rustystud]

Did a quick search about this and didn't see any threads do a straight up comparison on these, especially recently. So I've got a Wo/W truck and have been looking at the options to put one on for the inevitable rainy day when I'll need/wish I had one. I've got a line on a complete PTO set up for only a few hundred more than the 24v 25,000lbs Sherpa winch, but I've got a few questions that make me wonder.

Is one much better than the other and why?

Can you run the PTO winch while using the truck in gear?
The operators TM states to put the transmission in N but it only talks about winching other objects, not self recovery.

I imagine the Sherpa winch would be an easier install with just having to run cables, but then again the PTO winch is designed to bolt right in.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery? I mean pros! I did try to do my research here before posting but if I missed the obvious stuff then flame on!

EDIT: sorry if this should be in the hot rod board, please move if need be Mods

Everyone here provided you good information so I'll just give some personal experience. I've used PTO winches in the woods when I was working as a "yarder" for a logging company. All day running chocker cables. Yes PTO winches can run all day long without any break but you cannot ! Also as was already mentioned you need two people to safely run a PTO winch. While a Electric winch with a remote control is soooo easy to run ! The next question you need to answer is how much are you going to be using this winch ? Are you a contractor who has to remove a stand of lumber ? Or just a guy who will only use his winch on the rare times he gets stuck ? Another thing no one has mentioned is weight. The PTO winch is much heavier then the electric winch. That weight adds up on the front end. Then there is the "free space" factor. Have you tried working along side your engine with the winch driveline in place ? Having to drop your winch driveline every time you need to work on or near the injection pump gets really old fast. Then there is the whole PTO seal thing. There is two seals (one on the driveline side and then there is the control rod seal) that can be another potential leak area. As is the whole PTO unit itself. They can come loose ! Seen it fixed it. Now there is the whole "run" time thing with the electric winch. You cannot just turn it on and start pulling until whatever your pulling is free. The winch motor will burn up and your batteries might get toasted along with your alternator ! So now we're back to what you want to do with this winch.
I went with a WARN 18000 winch (I'm to old to be working in the woods so I don't need a PTO winch) . It runs great and mounted up easily to the front of my truck. I have two 36,000 Ibs snatch blocks and forty feet of 1/2" 70 grade chain. So far I have never used this winch, but if I ever need to it is ready to go.
I plan on buying two "Sherpa" winches now. One is the 24,000 Ibs unit for the rear of the deuce and the other is the 17,000 Ibs unit for my new truck.

 

[shannondeese]

On one of my A2s I have a PTO winch installed that I rarely use. On my other A2 it doesn’t have a winch and I have no plans to install one. On my A3 I am adding bumper extensions and a Sherpa 25k winch that I’ll probably only use in an emergency. But I want it available if I ever need it.

 

[MudMarine]

On one of my A2s I have a PTO winch installed that I rarely use. On my other A2 it doesn’t have a winch and I have no plans to install one. On my A3 I am adding bumper extensions and a Sherpa 25k winch that I’ll probably only use in an emergency. But I want it available if I ever need it.

Yeah I'm thinking this is the route I will probably end up going.

@rustystud
Maintenance space and leaks are a great consideration!
I won't have a full time use for this winch, it'll only be used for the times that I totally screw up and think that this truck can handle it and get totally stuck. sadly enough, getting trucks stuck in the worst places and by myself is kinda my MO... It's like I never learn! Haha

 

[rustystud]

Yeah I'm thinking this is the route I will probably end up going.

@rustystud
Maintenance space and leaks are a great consideration!
I won't have a full time use for this winch, it'll only be used for the times that I totally screw up and think that this truck can handle it and get totally stuck. sadly enough, getting trucks stuck in the worst places and by myself is kinda my MO... It's like I never learn! Haha

An electric winch will serve you well then. Remember to buy some "snatch blocks".

 

[Floridianson]

If your truck came with a PTO winch you will most likely stand by it like a good hooker stands by her prices. If it did not go with electric.
Deuce PTO winch can carry a lot of line if you have to double / triple out. The Sherpa says it only carries 105 feet. If you have to double out you better hope there is something close. As Kenny said first gear low and slow in winch you just let out the clutch and let the truck and winch work together. Con my .02 is the sear pin it does not take much for that aluminum pin to pop but it does protect the winch and you pocket book. Yes you can use a low grade bolt but you better be care full. If you pop that aluminum pin and the front end is in the mud it will be no fun to replace it if you even can get to it to see what going on. You will need a drift punch and hammer to push out the broken piece. If a seal goes bad on me I just drain it and add corn head grease and no problems. Don't see how the PTO shaft would ever be a problem if you had injection pump problems but what ever.
When in doubt double out PTO or electric and if you can carry extra line of some sort. I like extra cable that will run through a snatch block. Main thing I have tattooed on my forehead backwards so I can read it in my rear view mirror is check the depth of the hole you think you can drive through and does it have a bottom. Think and know are two different things so carry a probe rod. When it comes to the extra rigging bigger / heaver is not always better if you ever tried to walk in knee deep mud with a 40 pound block and extra line/chain. Correct size block and I use to carry extra nylon and 120 feet of cable on a reel.

 

[rustystud]

If your truck came with a PTO winch you will most likely stand by it like a good hooker stands by her prices. If it did not go with electric.
Deuce PTO winch can carry a lot of line if you have to double / triple out. The Sherpa says it only carries 105 feet. If you have to double out you better hope there is something close. As Kenny said first gear low and slow in winch you just let out the clutch and let the truck and winch work together. Con my .02 is the sear pin it does not take much for that aluminum pin to pop but it does protect the winch and you pocket book. Yes you can use a low grade bolt but you better be care full. If you pop that aluminum pin and the front end is in the mud it will be no fun to replace it if you even can get to it to see what going on. You will need a drift punch and hammer to push out the broken piece. If a seal goes bad on me I just drain it and add corn head grease and no problems. Don't see how the PTO shaft would ever be a problem if you had injection pump problems but what ever.
When in doubt double out PTO or electric and if you can carry extra line of some sort. I like extra cable that will run through a snatch block. Main thing I have tattooed on my forehead backwards so I can read it in my rear view mirror is check the depth of the hole you think you can drive through and does it have a bottom. Think and know are two different things so carry a probe rod. When it comes to the extra rigging bigger / heaver is not always better if you ever tried to walk in knee deep mud with a 40 pound block and extra line/chain. Correct size block and I use to carry extra nylon and 120 feet of cable on a reel.

I would never tell anyone who already had a winch mounted to remove it for a electric winch.
I always carry the correct size rigging never said to carry larger. Also when working alongside the engine and transmission, it is a pain to deal with the winch driveline in the way. I just drop it to make room.
Also with my electric winch I don't need someone in the cab to stop the winch from ripping it self or anything else apart. I'm not young enough to run and jump in the cab anymore.
As far as seals leaking on the PTO. You cannot put "cornhead" grease in the whole transmission. I guess you could but the transmission would not last long.
Your correct about the amount of line the electric holds. That is why I always carry extra chain and line with swaged ends already on it, with shackles.

 

[Floridianson]

Never said to loose a PTO for electric I love my PTO winch's and stand by them. A good Hooker will not lower her price as there is always a John waiting. Yes I miss read, you said PTO seals I was thinking Winch seals. PTO seal leaking just replace them or rebuild the PTO before you install it if you just bought a winch set up. I will try and slow down my reading skills. Guess bottom line is if you have any winch and you think it will always save you in a truck that is as heavy as a Deuce you might want to rethink it. Best to have a friend with a bigger truck and winch and invite them to go. I will still stand by the only down fall with a PTO winch is the shear pin.

 

[MudMarine]

Nah I haven't fooled myself that a winch is the end-all be-all to save me, I just know their value in off road applications and would rather have and not need than not have at all... We found a screaming deal on a parts truck that has a complete winch with snatch block. We're getting the truck either way but may or may not cannibalize the winch or just sell it to offset our cost of buying the truck.

Right now, as much as I really love the look of the PTO winch, I'm thinking the 25k Sherpa might better suit our wants.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Nah I haven't fooled myself that a winch is the end-all be-all to save me, I just know their value in off road applications and would rather have and not need than not have at all... We found a screaming deal on a parts truck that has a complete winch with snatch block. We're getting the truck either way but may or may not cannibalize the winch or just sell it to offset our cost of buying the truck.

Right now, as much as I really love the look of the PTO winch, I'm thinking the 25k Sherpa might better suit our wants.

Well, you could always pull a Clinto, have the PTO winch fore and Sherpa aft.

 

[clinto]

Well, you could always pull a Clinto, have the PTO winch fore and Sherpa aft.

I have a Warn M-series 18K on the rear of my truck, but I'd kind of like to buy one of the Sherpas and try it. They're a very competitive price point.

My junker:

 

[rustystud]

I have a Warn M-series 18K on the rear of my truck, but I'd kind of like to buy one of the Sherpas and try it. They're a very competitive price point.

My junker:

View attachment 753156View attachment 753157View attachment 753158

I'm going to buy the Sherpa and mount it in the back like you did. That way if I'm stuck either front or back I can winch out.

 

[rustystud]

I will still stand by the only down fall with a PTO winch is the shear pin.

That and you need two people to safely operate it. I don't always have a friend along when I go play.