5 ton air lockers?

[Buffalobwana]

Fmtv guys got ARB to commit if they had 50 pre sold. I though a few different guys were working on this but all have fell through.


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Funny things happen when you start asking for money. Priorities start getting in the way. Kids, bills, divorces, illness, unemployment ... everyone wants one until you ask for a check.


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[162tcat]

Funny things happen when you start asking for money. Priorities start getting in the way. Kids, bills, divorces, illness, unemployment ... everyone wants one until you ask for a check.


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Yeah I imagine. Well for the record, I'm still in if the price is reasonable.


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[porkysplace]

Funny things happen when you start asking for money. Priorities start getting in the way. Kids, bills, divorces, illness, unemployment ... everyone wants one until you ask for a check.


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That's why ARB wants a committed vendor with the resources to pay for 50 before they spend the time and money to develop and produce them. They don't want to get stuck with them because of the price.

 

[Buffalobwana]

That's why ARB wants a committed vendor with the resources to pay for 50 before they spend the time and money to develop and produce them. They don't want to get stuck with them because of the price.

Sure, it’s just good business. Good business is also to not invest in something that has shallow demand. If you have customers asking for it, guys willing to spend it on this exact product right now, a vendor will take the risk, and foot the bill for 50.

But with risk comes reward. Who gets the reward here? All 50 of the customers seem to want to share in the reward of an inexpensive product without throwing down any of the upfront capital. Everyone, wants to pay for it once it’s done, then you can refer back to post #81. The money suddenly disappears. (Kids, bills, illness, unemployment etc).

I’m certainly not talking about anyone in particular, like you 162tcat. I am speaking about my past experience with group financial commitments. When it’s time to write the check 75-80% of the money disappears when we are talking about real money (stuff that is $1000 +).

 

[74M35A2]

Benchmark. How much is the ARB for the 2.5T axle? If $1,000, then the one for the 5T will never happen from a demand price point.

 

[Buffalobwana]

Good eye.

 

[winfred]

the handy thing is 2.5 rockwells are popular in off roading so its a much deeper market then just deuces and deuce owners have a option besides a detroit or lunch box locker.the detroit in my front axle made it near impossible to drive on pavement with 395s before i installed locking hubs

Benchmark. How much is the ARB for the 2.5T axle? If $1,000, then the one for the 5T will never happen from a demand price point.

 

[Buffalobwana]

Good point, which probably makes the likelihood of a $1k or even $1500 5 ton locker even more distant.

 

[adamsoffroadperformance]

That's why I said you will be lucky if they cost less than $1500. If you ever sat a 5 ton carrier beside a 2.5 ton carrier there is a huge difference in size. The chunk of billet it will take to make a 5 ton arb is probably $500-600 just for that let alone machining time and heat treat. The market for the 5 ton has gotten much bigger since the big dump from the military the last few years but I doubt they will fly off the shelf when made.

 

[azteclizard]

Well.. where do i send my deposit?

 

[162tcat]

Deuce arb locker is $1k. $1500 for a 5 ton seems doable and reasonable. Like the guy above said, where do I send my deposit?


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[Jbulach]

My best guess would be contact Red Barn Customs, they should have a decent feel for the market and price point.

Their advertised prices...

2.5 ton: Cannon ball, $300
Detroit, $550
ARB, $1,100

5 ton: Cannon ball, $500
Detroit, $1,200
ARB, N/A

Looking at the ARB website, the smaller, uber popular dana 44, for $990, up to the 2.5 ton Rockwell, at $1050 seems to be about the extreme spread.

The basic 5 ton design is already there, in the 2.5 ton.

I doubt even on a small order of 50-100, these would be carved out of billet. Even at 25-50 I think cast/forging would be more cost effective, although I could and have been wrong before!

 

[porkysplace]

My best guess would be contact Red Barn Customs, they should have a decent feel for the market and price point.

Their advertised prices...

2.5 ton: Cannon ball, $300
Detroit, $550
ARB, $1,100

5 ton: Cannon ball, $500
Detroit, $1,200
ARB, N/A

Looking at the ARB website, the smaller, uber popular dana 44, for $990, up to the 2.5 ton Rockwell, at $1050 seems to be about the extreme spread.

The basic 5 ton design is already there, in the 2.5 ton.

I doubt even on a small order of 50-100, these would be carved out of billet. Even at 25-50 I think cast/forging would be more cost effective, although I could and have been wrong before!

If you look at the numbers they just about double from a 2 1/2 ton to a 5 ton
that would put a 5 ton at around $2000 +/-.
The $990 for the Dana 44 is probably their staring point pricing.

 

[winfred]

ARB #RD145 for a deuce, $997 and some places free shipping is the nice price on 2.5s

 

[azteclizard]

Thats nice.. but it wont fit in my 5ton axle..

 

[porkysplace]

Thats nice.. but it wont fit in my 5ton axle..

You just need some big shims and RVT.

 

[big block 88]

Im starting to think cannonball with hubs on front and intermediate axle

 

[adamsoffroadperformance]

Gearhart Engineering sells new Detroits for about $1000 each. Not as nice as a selectable locker but if you use a "Cannon ball" in the front axle you will hate life and your power steering pump is gonna die a whole sooner plus any pavement action is a no no. At least the Detroit will unlock in a turn.

 

[Ajax MD]

I've read this thread from start to finish and I have a few questions.

I've owned 4x4's in the past, but never had a locker. I understand the difference between an air or electrically actuated locker and an "overrun" locker like Detroit or Cannonball.
What I don't exactly understand is, what happens or what are the handling characteristics of an overrun locker when driven on pavement, especially in a 6x6?

Is the handling squirrley during straight-line driving?
How bad is it during turns in on-pavement driving? What happens?
Do overrun lockers really eat the tires much more quickly in on-pavement driving?
Is a locker in just one rear axle a pointless exercise or does it offer some assistance?
On an M813, I assume installation would require removing the bed?

I'm not trying to build an unstoppable machine, I just want a little occasional advantage. I'm thinking either an overrun locker in the intermediate axle or both rear axles if the money presents itself. I won't put one in the steering axle. I don't want the complexities of additional air lines or electronic actuators, just the simplicity of automatic, mechanical engagement. My on-pavement driving is pretty much straight line and not really any winding, mountain road type of stuff.

If lockers cause a lot of unwanted stresses on axles and other components, I'll just leave things alone.

 

[74M35A2]

I don't have any experience to answer your good questions, but I imagine they must be fairly tolerable, since they were supposedly standard equipment in Marine issued M939's?

I do have 2 used Detroit Locker 5t diffs that I would consider selling.

The air locking fire truck axles are cool, wrong ratio, rare, expensive, and nobody has really thrown any under a 5 ton mil truck yet that I know of. Not even sure if the width and mounting is compatible, such as the torque rod arm mounting provisions. Air brake adaptation should be straight forward for M939's? Same with adding CTIS if for an A2? TBD, none of it has been done that has been posted. I'd love to do it, especially in the front, but don't want to lay out the cash to then only find out it won't bolt up, or is too narrow, or etc.....

Have you tested your traction off road yet? You can get these truck stuck pretty good without any type of traction assisting diff.