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Ether Bottle Question

Kevin Means

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Hi again. I've looked around but can't seem to find an answer to this. I am trying to remove the ether bottle - planning on doing away with it altogether in favor of a block heater and hydronic engine pre-heater. It looks like the ether bottle simply unscrews, but when I try to unscrew it, the whole base turns as well, which starts twisting the wires. Am I missing something? I'm wondering if it's just screwed on too tight, and I should hold onto the base to prevent it from turning while unscrewing the bottle. Don't want to force it and break something. I can tell the bottle has some ether in it. Other than not smoking when I remove it, any other precautions to take?

Kevin
 

GeneralDisorder

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Don't delete it. 3116's can be hard to start in the cold.

Block heater and pre-heating is all good but those both take time. Something you may not always have an abundance of. Ether will make it possible to start the truck nearly immediately from a completely cold state.

As for removal - it just unscrews - same as a propane bottle. It's likely rusted.
 
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Ronmar

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Yea steel bottle into a brass solenoid valve. hold the valve to apply a little more torque to unscrew the bottle. I would keep it for reasons mentioned… direct metered injection like this is the only proper way to apply ether, and is fully controllable with no real downside…
 

MatthewWBailey

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Well... okay. We'll keep it. Still gotta get it unscrewed, but at least I know I was on the right track. Thanks again - as usual. (Sure glad I don't have to pay for all this help.)
Kevin
It's more of a psychological type of payment, like Hotel California. You can check out but you can never leave.
 

GCecchetto

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I need to give the either starting system on my A1R some love. Haven't dedicated any time to it yet, so no idea if it is functional or not. Anyone have a good source for the canisters and the plastic tubing? The canister was missing and the tubing was cut when I got the truck.
 

Ronmar

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I need to give the either starting system on my A1R some love. Haven't dedicated any time to it yet, so no idea if it is functional or not. Anyone have a good source for the canisters and the plastic tubing? The canister was missing and the tubing was cut when I got the truck.
I think the P/n is in the parts spreadsheet, you can get them at napa...
 

aw113sgte

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Got mine at Napa, the hose is standard 1/8 nylon "brake" line.
There is a decent chance the solenoid does not function if it's had water getting in it. Mine was completely seized up, check its function by supplying 24 volts to the pins you should see the plunger move.
 

GCecchetto

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Thanks guys. I just finished a complete cosmetic restoration my C7 along with addressing the several issues detailed in the CAT media letter regarding the HEUI system, so it's fully bombproofed now. I'm going to do a post regarding what I found, what was done to correct what was found and then the additional things you can do like the IFS post HEUI pump filter kit. I have a few things I need to do to the truck before either start system. One step at a time.
 

Ronmar

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Yea hopefully they installed the storage plug when they removed the cylinder. i originally thought my cylinder was empty but someone had installed the line under a bracket, pinching it flat and blocking any flow out of the cylinder when i tried it.
 

GCecchetto

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@GCecchetto
Can you link/comment more about this?


Thanks.
I'm planning to do a detailed write on this, but I'll give you the abbreviated version here. One of the main causes of HEUI pump failures in 3126 and C7 engines is the oil cooler/oil filter housing. The main issue is that the oil cooler gasket surface that the oil filter housing seals against isn't flat. In the case of my oil cooler, vertically across the gasket mating surface, it was out by over 30 thousandths in about 4.5 inches. In my case, being a 2008 C7, the new style metal gaskets were installed, but there is no way they can correctly seal when the surface they are sealing against is that far out. Older engines had fiber gaskets that would literally blow out. The result of being dirty oil bypassing to the clean oil side, and that oil goes straight to the HEUI pump. This is a significant cause of low mileage HEUI pump failures.

Speaking with Josh, who does the Adept Ape youtube channel, this is a chronic problem. He told me has had to order 3 new oil coolers to get one that was acceptable to install. CAT is aware of this problem and have updated the oil filter housing, the gaskets, and developed a HEUI pump prefilter to filter and unfiltered oil bypassing the oil filter before it enters the HEUI pump.

In installed the latest design oil filter housing, with the new updated gaskets, and I also replaced the two check valves and associated springs, O-rings, and plugs in the oil filter housing. Rather spending $1000 on a new oil cooler that wasn't likely to be flat either, I took my oil cooler to a lapper and had it lapped to an extremely precise lever of flatness for $200. My HEUI, at 9500 miles, was already spitting out metal, so I replaced the HEUI pump. I also installed the new style injectors that have screen on them. Next was CAT's HEUI prefilter to catch anything damaging before it makes it into the HEUI pump, and then the IFS filter kit that filters the oil coming out of the HEUI pump before it goes into the head. That way if the HEUI pump fails, it can't destroy the injectors.

A point of note, the compressor that CAT specs on a C7 are smaller that the compressors on our trucks. Because of the size of the compressors on our trucks, you can't install/replace the filter in CAT's prefilter kit without removing the compressor. You need to remove the compressor anyway, for the first install due to where the HEUI pump oil supply line bolts to the block, so you can install the filter at that time before installing the compressor, but once the compressor is in place, you cannot service that filter without removing the compressor. That didn't work for me, so I relocated that filter as you see below.

I also included a photos showing how I mounted the IFS filter. The max pressure in the line coming out of the HEUI pump is around 4800 psi, so I wanted those line as short as possible and I didn't want them bridging the gap from engine to frame where there is the most differential movement.

I would urge anyone with a 3126 or C7 to be proactive and pull you injection actuation pressure sensor and stick a flexy pick up magnet into the HEUI oil galley and see if there is metal on it. if there is, you're driving a ticking timebomb.

The CAT documents are attached below.

This is how I reconfigured the CAT HEUI prefilter.
IMG_0405.jpg

These two images show the IFS HEUI post filter mounting.
IMG_0435.jpgIMG_0434.jpg

And the whole thing buttoned back up.
IMG_0452.jpg
 

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aw113sgte

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So this issue with the flatness keeps going around but it's usually missing the point. Typically the measurement people reference is the sandwich plate and it's only about 1/2" thick. You can push on it with your hand and remove all that gap. The more important measurement is it's thickness across the length and the flatness of the large cooler part. Even that you have to take with a grain of salt though as the bolts can push those parts into place. I would estimate the main issue is the paper gasket-if that blows out you have bypass, hence the new metal ones.
 
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GCecchetto

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So this issue with the flatness keeps going around but it's usually missing the point. Typically the measurement people reference is the sandwich plate and it's only about 1/2" thick. You can push on it with your hand and remove all that gap. The more important measurement is it's thickness across the length and the flatness of the large cooler part. Even that you have to take with a grain of salt though as the bolts can push those parts into place. I would estimate the main issue is the paper gasket-if that blows out you have bypass, hence the new metal ones.
Yea, I'm not talking about the spacer plate, it has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. I'm talking about the short direction across the flat surface of the oil cooler, photo below. The center section is where the two dividers are that separate filtered from unfiltered oil. My cooler was out of 30 thousandths, convex. There is no way the oil filter housing with bolts only around the perimeter was pulling that down flat.
5922191072565243317.jpeg
 
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