hydralic winch

[atilathehun]

just a crazy idea but has enyone ever run a hydralic winch off the power sterring system on a five ton? I was thinking about installing t fitings inline with the pressure feed and return lines to a valve then from the valve to the winch can it be done?

 

[gimpyrobb]

It can be done easily. The hard part is finding the volume and pressure of the pump, and then matching it to a hyd. motor.

 

[m16ty]

I'm pretty sure the pressure would be fine as they are a standard gear pump but the problem is going to be volume. It will still work but it will be very slow. There is really no way to increase volume output other than a bigger pump. The flange on the engine is a standard pump mount so mounting a larger pump would be easy but I don't know if you would have the room between the flange and the radiator.

I would think the best way to go hyd would be to mount a PTO pump.

 

[Jake0147]

First, I believe that the steering gear uses an open center valve. I think that this means the winch would have to be in line, not in parallel, and an open center/power beyond valve would have to be used. Pressure line from the pump to the winch valve, pressure line from the winch valve to the steering gear, and a return line from the steering gear to the resivoir.
You'd also want a pretty significantly sized fluid resivoir, otherwise I'd expect the fluid to get old pretty quickly. Winching (or any extended use application) is hard on hydraulic fluid if the system errs towards the small side.
The above concerns about the pump volume are probably accurate. There's also the issue of how much horsepower the front cover really "want's" to deliver. A larger pump may fit, but that may or may not lead to further issues. I'm not sure how you'd research that?
I would think in the end a PTO pump would be a more prudent solution.

.02 only..... I'm not an expert here, and of course I'll always (within reason) go along with the "bird in the hand" theory.

 

[atilathehun]

sounds like i will go with a pto pump thanks for the input

 

[Jones]

I'm running a Chelsea PTO with a Cessna pump on the Allison in the baby HEMTT. The pumps all seem to be close to the same volume output. The way the HEMTTs do it is just to step up the engine RPM with a fast idle solenoid.
True, it's nice to reel the cable back in and be on your way when the job is done, but you don't want to have so much speed that it ends up working like a slingshot.

A large capacity reservoir gives you sufficient fluid but also a large enough volume so that cooling the fluid isn't a big concern.

I built the baby HEMTT on a deuce frame so the installation should be pretty close to the same.
The PTO and pump are a little on the chunky side but with the standard deuce transmission you may or may not have to notch the frame like I did with the Allison.
Here are some pictures of my set-up.

 

[emr]

FYI, I have a new in crate complet HUMVEE hydrolic winch , runs off the power steering i believe, its a 10,500 # winch , not really a big truck winch, but may be an awesome rear mounted unit?

 

[m16ty]

I'm running a 45,000lb wrecker drag winch off of hyd. on a civilain KW. It's powered by a 1,700 in/lb motor (which is a very large hyd motor) and a 40GPM pump. By the time I geared it to pull the rated 45,000lb it is still pretty slow and the oil heats up pretty quick on long pulls.

Another thing I did on this setup was to mount a remote valve and attached an air cylinder. That way I can run air valves to where ever I want to control the winch which is alot easier, neater, and cheaper to run mutiple controls. I think this same setup would work well for the duece.

If I was going hyd I'd want a minimum 20GPM pump and atleast a 5gal resivor.

 

[mudguppy]

Jones, do you have pics of your hyd motor mounted on the winch? also, do you have any specs on the pump vs the hyd motor?

how does it perform vs stock - speed, pulling power, etc. ?

TIA

 

[emmado22]

EMR,

If you decide to part that winch out, I need the 2 stickers that it has.

 

[bigelk50]

I think that a pto also would work best. That being said, is there any kind of after market pto available for a 5 ton. Sorry not meaning to hi jack.

 

[atilathehun]

That is just fine bigelk50 as i am wondering the same thing. I was thinking the power steering pump because my pto case was cracked and leaking and had a spun bearing so i had to remove it to stop the trans leak. All the info i have found is a chelsea pto 100 series looks real close to what was on there. They are a division of dana corp. If someone can get me a part # of a pto for a m54 with the direct trans that would be an awsome start thanks.

 

[bigelk50]

Bummer deal about your case. Hope you get it fixed. I will be interested to see what you come up with once someone gets you that number.

 

[m16ty]

From what I found out is Chelsea did make the correct gear sets but is obsolete and no longer available. A hyd winch would be far easier to control and be a big improvement but it would depend on how much you use the winch to know if it would be worth it or not.

 

[WPNS421]

The Canadian M35(MLVW) has a hydraulic winch with a PTO mounted pump, the oil reservoir is the size of the M35 fuel tank and has external filters. You need a large volume of oil so it will remain relatively cool In our series truck the pump handles the winch and if so mounted the hiab crane. The winch is basically controlled by rpm .

 

[bigelk50]

Dang thats too bad about Chelsea.

 

[atilathehun]

i have a belt driven pump from a oshkosh plow truck i am going to try and power it from a 18 hp small gas engine the tank i have holds 25 gallons the tank came with the pump i am going to mount the hole mess on the deck plate behind the cab the winch will mount over the rear axles on that deck plate as the plate goes from cab to the back of the frame

 

[Jones]

Mudguppy,

My winch is off of a utility company line truck and a little light for my tastes. As soon as I get one more closely rated for the baby HEMTT I'll get some pictures for you.

Hydraulic lines are just so much easier to run than PTO drivelines with all their assorted supports and bearings if you're running something too far away from the PTO.

System speed isn't a big factor for me-- whether it's winching or lifting with the crane. When you're stuck enough to need your winch, 10 or 15 minutes either way isn't gonna matter a whole lot.

 

[atilathehun]

i will go with jones on the hydro lines alot easier to run and with another power source if the truck was to die for some reason i can still move with the winches

 

[RangerDave]

I'm a fan of Hydraulic as well, but I'm becoming more of a fan of the belt driven Hydro pump over the PTO..... (Northern tool has em). I like them because you have plenty of GPM and PSI when you need it, it is independent of your drive train (so you can work a difficult spot while driving and pulling) and with a flick of the electrical switch you turn the clutch off and It stops pumping to the winch. The biggest problem with these is finding a spot to mount them and route the belts...