ultimate onboard fuel filtration / processing setup

[yeager1]

I imagine it will filter out the FREE water fairly well

Unfortunately I don't think it will do much. Water and oil do separate, but the turbulance and swirling from pouring it from a jug into a filter will mix them together and most of the water will go through with the oil. Overall a nice unit though.

 

[PsycoBob]

Propane regulators used for engines (forklifts) are available in coolant-heated version to avoid icing. A wide variety of fixed/variable regulators are available. I'm looking at a Beam T50/60 for a 1.5kw DC genset that's giving me carb problems.

 

[jesusgatos]

Been working on other parts of this project lately, but it's time to get back to the fuel system. Good news is that I've made some space to mount all this equipment. I've removed the stock toolbox and battery box from under the cab, and I'm going to reconfigure both of those spaces. Need to wait until I have all of these parts here on-hand before I can do much more, but I think I've got plenty of room to work with.

I'm going to take everyones' advice and run separate primary filters for each tank.

Gotta work on some line drawings to get all the details sorted out, but I think I've got a pretty good grasp of what the overall system is going to look like.

Thanks again for helping me work through this guys.

 

[Westech]

It looks like a great idea all the filters and such. I have ran just about everything you can think ok in my Deuce and the only trouble i had was I had to change the fuel filters every 5k miles or so. Really I would think a spin on before the stock set up would work out fine. But it sure does look ike a good set up you have there. I my self would go the cheaper and maybe even less problematic way of ading a spin on or changing all the filters to spin on.

 

[jesusgatos]

This whole project is really just an exercise in overkill. The goal is to make all of the important systems (water filtration, heat, etc.) ultra-reliable, and in most cases, 2-3 times redundant. Back-ups for back-ups, tools to fix tools, etc.

 

[jesusgatos]

Parts started showing up today. That filter is HUGE, and I've got to figure out how to make room for two of them?

 

[nhdiesel]

I'm kind of leaning toward what some of the others have mentioned- using 2 tanks to keep the 2 different types of fuel separate. Use one tank for "clean" fuel- diesel, clean gasoline, etc. The the 2nd tank for "mystery fluids", all the stuff that could have any contaminants in it, or could gel more easily.

In keeping with your redundant systems, I would have separate fuel systems all the way to just before the injection pump. Each tank would have its own course primary filter, then a secondary medium filter, and last, the fine filter.

To add to the system, the "dirty fuel tank" could have it's own cleaning system. Install a 2nd fuel pickup, pump, and filters that are only for circulating the fuel from the tank, through the filters, and back into the tank. If you get a batch of something you want to make extra sure is clean (used motor oil, used veggie oil) pour it in the tank, flip a switch, and let it circulate and clean for a couple hours while you run on diesel (or are parked) and you'll be surprised at how clean it will get. Using a dedicated pre-filtration system will help keep your main filters cleaner, with less chance of downtime on the road due to an unexpected dirty filter. It would be extra plumbing and parts, but the extra cleaning would be well worth it. You should be able to fit the pump and filters right next to the tank, keeping everything fairly compact.

Just a few thoughts...

Jim

 

[jesusgatos]

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I agree with you. The advice I've gotten here has saved me some headaches, I'm sure.

As of right now, I'm planning on configuring the fuel system/s pretty much exactly like you're suggesting. The only thing is, there are a couple of things that I'm not sure I'll be able to double-up on everything ($ and space constraints), so I might merge the two systems in a way that would allow me to keep them separate, while sharing a few key components. Still thinking about this. Don't have all the details worked out yet...

 

[jesusgatos]

Install magnetic fuel filtering also...

For fuel selector valves, use aircraft, direct action type. Stay away from "pilot" operated valves, they will clog...all those little passages...

What do you think about these Magnom magnetic filters? They look pretty nice.

Can you please tell me more about these valves? I'm getting to the point where I need to start thinking about plumbing, and want to make sure I'm using the right components. There are going to be several selector valves in the system, that will need to do things like:

1) switch between tanks

2) return fuel to the tank it came from

3) redirect fuel from the clean tank to flush out the slut tank's lines & filters

4) bypass the FBO filter when running gasoline in the slut tank

5) run in closed-loop to filter / polish fuel
I'd like to set it up so that when I select a tank using valve #1, valve #2 would also be switched over so that fuel is coming from, and being returned to, the same tank. I'm sure I could do this with some type of simple mechanical linkage, or two switches, but it would be ideal if I could find one valve that would operate two circuits at the same time. What would be the best way to handle the electrical side of things? Should I just use manual switches to turn fuel pumps on/off, or should I tie them into the selector valves in the fluid circuit somehow?

Those filter funnels look nice!
flebay has a few, about $58 + shipping, for the [SIZE=-1]RFF15C which is the biggest/fastest they make.[/SIZE]
Not sure how well it will filter the WMO/WVO though, with it being thicker. Definitely want the biggest filter to use with the thicker fuel like that.
Try it out Jesse! Then let us know how well that works. I would get that in a heartbeat if I knew it would separate free water from WMO and flow at a somewhat respectable rate (obviously slower then the normal fuel rate.)

I got two of those filter funnels. One of the biggest, and one of the smallest. Pretty rad. If you put them under the kitchen sink faucet, they will not let and water pass through the funnel. But if you pour gas/diesel through them, they don't seem to restrict the flow very much at all. I haven't had a chance to fill up a whole tank in one of my trucks using the larger filter yet, but I'll let you know how well it works after I do.

Parts started showing up today. That filter is HUGE, and I've got to figure out how to make room for two of them?

I spoke too soon.

At's nawt ah filtar... THIS is a filtar!

 

[jesusgatos]

That's the FBO filter that will be used to separate water from the fuel in the slut tank. Look at the size of those fittings! Also received this fuel polishing unit, which should keep the fuel clean. Should keep algae and anything like that from growing in the fuel tanks.

 

[Hammer]

The 5 tons that have multiple tanks have the selector valves that switch both the main lines and the return lines at the same time.
There are electronic solenoid versions of these as well (even have it switch the fuel send with some of those if you wanted.)

Back flushing the nasty fuel with clean fuel is a VERY good idea. Be interested to see how you can get that done without a big hassle.

As for those strainer/filters.
You want to test them out?
Take a cup of water and a cup of gas, SHAKE it up, then poor it in the funnel.
Measure what the results are.
Repeat with WMO or WVO.
If they work half as good as they claim, I wouldn't mind that big one for pre filtering stuff.
Just don't want to waste more money then I already have....

And **** it man, that is a HUGE filter!
Where on earth are you going to mount that sucker?

 

[jesusgatos]

Thanks Ed! That's great to know about those 5-ton selector valves. Sounds like EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Makes sense I guess, because I'm using them almost exactly the same way. I was thinking that I'd need to put the fuel gauge on a separate switch (to switch between sending units), but that's even better. Still might prefer manual selector valves though. I'm adding a lot of electronic crap to Mah Deuce, but nothing that is too critical.

I'll test out these pre-filters and will let you know how well they work.

Yes, that thing is HUGE, isn't it? I'm going to mount all the filters and pumps and everything right in front of the fuel tanks, where the toolbox and battery boxes were. Going to make good use of that space, and everything will be protected by a big skidplate.

 

[housemover]

Hello I have one of the large racor funnels. It works best with diesel. But I use it with wmo its just slow hotter the oil faster it funnels. And from my experience it does catch a lot of water don't know if it gets it all though. But it's well worth every penny.

 

[jesusgatos]

Been talking with the people at Magnom about their magnetic filters. Evidently, they're able to remove 99% of all ferrous metals from just about any type of fluids. It's not a mesh/media-type filter, so they're not rated in microns, but I was told that they can/will reliably filter down to less than 1 micron. Sounds great, right? I'm looking at the Max and the Clear 5. The Clear 5 looks like it would be a lot easier to service (clean), with it's removable bowl - but's it's also pretty spendy (about $800).

 

[JOAT 0311]

It is absolutely a great idea to have an appropriate tank for pump diesel!!!! It would not hurt to have it as your obvious "primary" fuel tank. None of us can afford to not pay the road tax. That being said, don't forget about the simple matter of maintaining heat in your fuel once all the work to heat it has been done. A little insulation can serve many purposes. Just food for thought here, would it be a benefit to recirculate/filter and heat in the same area of the truck. I also am partial to the practice of starting and final purge with clean diesel. I know extra switches and valves. Jesse, great thread! I have been watching since you started.

 

[jesusgatos]

Ed, I just had a thought about those 5-ton valves. I was thinking those were exactly what I was looking for, but as I'm starting to make line drawings to figure out how to plumb everything, I'm having second thoughts. When I'm feeding the engine from the diesel tank, I'll want to return the fuel to the diesel tank - and when I'm feeding the engine from the slut tank, I'll want to return the fuel to the slut tank. But when I'm purging the system (running diesel from the diesel tank through the slut tank's lines and filters), I'll want to return that fuel to the slut tank. So I think I'm going to have to use two separate control valves. That is, unless there's a three-position valve that would allow me to:

1) pull from diesel tank -> return to diesel tank

2) pull from slut tank -> return to slut tank

3) pull from diesel tank -> return to slut tank

Also thinking that position 3) would also allow me to transfer fuel from the diesel tank to the slut tank without having to install another fuel pump. This might be useful if I ever need to thin any of the alternative fuels in the slut tank.

 

[jesusgatos]

Not exactly sure what I might do to retain heat in the tanks. Probably not going to worry about it until/unless it's a problem. To start off, I think I'm going to install one of these coolant heaters in each of the fuel supply lines, before all the filters. I know that the tanks will also need to be heated in really cold weather too, so I'm thinking that I'll also drill some holes in the top of the tanks and install some bulkhead fittings that will run engine coolant through a coiled loop of copper tubing (or maybe something like PEX tubing?). Open to input here...

 

[JOAT 0311]

The pex tubing should work fine. If you already have copper that is probably the way to go. You can use any type of insulation. I am pretty sure WVO for example needs to be around 150 F for optimal usage. In CA you have a variety of climates depending on where you are. Some one correct me if I am wrong, foil face and some canvas should help maintain temps on your tanks. Even Neoprene and canvas tank covers should retain quite a bit of the heat. In warmer climates you could stow your covers.
I just was discussing air filtration this weekend w/an SS member. We discussed how after the Mt St Helens Eruption the volcanic dust would choke a truck out after 4 blocks. Just a little something to discuss after the filtration. I think we have the right crowd here for the related discussion. The cleanest fuel still needs air.
Many of the WVO vehicles have the extra coolant/heater lines bundled with the fuel lines to reduce heat loss. This is typically from the t-vales in the engine compartment to the fuel tank.

 

[jesusgatos]

I was just thinking about something flexible like PEX because I'm a little bit concerned about hanging a bunch of copper tubing down into the tank and leaving it to dangle, unsupported. Seems like it would be prone to getting work-hardened and fail.

I'll give some more thought to insulating the tanks, but not any time soon. Not even sure I'll be keeping these tanks in the long run. Might end up replacing them with something else. Who knows right now...

Air filtration has been discussed here. Disregard the premise, there's some good tech. The short answer is that the best air filter would probably be a water/oil bath (like a bong), but I'm just going to use one of these Sy-Klone pre-filters.

 

[JOAT 0311]

That Sy-Klone looks good. Did you wear out the UPS man yet? If you make a small leg that reaches the bottom of the tank and attach it to your tubing that may work. I would put a viton pad on the bottom for anti-vibration. You could make as many legs as you wanted for copper. Also, don't underestimate copper it is a hearty material. Unless you are really going nuts w/high temps it shouldn't be a problem. You will be some where around 180-220 F worst case scenario. Alot of heat will dissappate in the tank anyway. What about hanging a cylindrical screen in the tank w/copper or pex wound around the cylinder?