repowering the 880 Dodge

[maddawg308]

Got into a heated discussion with a friend of mine on the phone last night about repowering a M880 Dodge he owns. He's of the mindset that he wants to replace the 318ci engine with another Dodge power plant, a big block in the 383 or 440 family. He even mentioned a hemi (lotsobux). I'm of the mindset that he should dump the gasser idea and go with a Cummins 4BT or 6BT (will a 6BT fit in there?), or a similar diesel plant, with the focus being low end torque, not horsepower. He is of the old-school "more power, AR AR AR".

He would be using this truck primarily for offroading, mostly trails and rocks. Some towing, but nothing that heavy. What would you guys recommend for a power plant for his M880, replacing the tired 318?

 

[Atwater]

weren't the civy versions available with the cummins?
if fuel economy were not a concern and off road ability was, personally i would stay with a gas engine to keep some weight off the nose

 

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I had a thought of putting a 6.2 in the one I just bought, only because I have a spare sitting in the garage along with trans & T case to match. I absolutely hate the 318's, but then again I really never liked Dodge's period.

 

[maddawg308]

In doing some looking around for info, seems that if he wants to stay with a gas engine, the stock axle will be fine, regardless of how big the motor is. However, if he wants to swap to a diesel, he'll have to change out the Dana 44 front for a Dana 60. I'd match it with a Dana 70 rear, but that's me. I doubt he wants to tear everything apart including the axles to upgrade the engine.

 

[powerhouseduece]

That was the best part of the dodge I drove up to gilbet last saturday, the only thing dodge was the body. it was a 89' d250 4x4 with the getrag 5spd. cummins. If I was going to repower a 880 just as a play toy, thats the powerplant I would use. (a nv4500 would be a little stronger) but from what I hear, 89 was the only year for the cable driven speedo (should adapt to the factory 880 cable) A 4bt would work but without a little modding, its not going to have the power as the 6bt. If you planned on using it as a farm truck and not driving it everwhere on the highway, swap in a 4bt and some lower gears and you'll be fine. I picked up my 4th 4bt today, I need to get a swap done insted of these cool little motors sitting around on my shelf!

 

[Elwenil]

Having done this swap before, I'd also go with a big block. A Cummins is a great engine but it just doesn't have the brute force and unholy noise of a Mopar big block. A 383 or 400 is a much easier swap at times if the truck doesn't already have a small diameter brake booster to clear the 413/426/440 valve cover. A 383/400 can also normally be found cheaper, but then again, there is no substitute for cubic inches. The transmission will need to be replaced or at least a case swap as the small block 727 will not mate to the big blocks. Since big blocks were a factory option up until '78, there are 727 transmissions that will bolt in fromt eh '75-'79 full time 4WD trucks. If one cannot be found, one can be built from a typical 2WD truck or car 727 that mates to a big block and completely disassembling both transmissions to add the tailshaft and adaptor from the 4WD 727 to the big block 2WD housing making a big block 4WD 727 that will mate to the NP203 full time 4WD transfer case found in the M880s.

As far as a Cummins swap, the speedometer cable issue is not really an issue and is easy to work around.

 

[Jones]

If your buddy sticks with a first or second gen 12 valve, it'll be a snap.
I dropped an early 6BT into a Ramcharger and it fit like a glove.
Used the axles and springs out of the donor truck and everything was literally a bolt-in operation. Even the motor mounts were the same. The Ramcharger even had the drill out dimples in the inner wheel well for the intake heater solenoids.
Only changes were; a different core support for radiator to engine spacing.
Two bolt holes to stretch on the cross member for the rear trans mount.
Swapped out the fuel tanks and lines for the fuel return feature.

 

[Milt51]

I do 90% offroading with my M880, and I think the 318 is fine, however, I do have a backup 360 4barrel engine from a '79 one ton dually (same as the E58 police engine that year) which would be an unbolt, rebolt procedure as long as you keep the flexplate and torque converter from the 360, and adds about 100 hp.

 

[Dave_1972]

Probably a dumb question - but does a 6BT actually mate with the TF727 we have in the M880's?

 

[maddawg308]

Probably not. Went to Advance Adapters website and they don't have an adapter for it. I suppose you could pull a 6BT out of one of those Dodge aircraft tugs, along with the tranny, but I'd hate to see what ratio that transmission is, for pulling aircraft. Gotta be REAL low gearing, not suitable for road use at all.

 

[dc3coyote]

That thing would be slower than a loaded Duece going up hill with 10 flat tires and a headwind.
But you would be able to drag close to the same load.

 

[Elwenil]

No, the 727 that mates to the Cummins is a special housing. Same with the later A518 (46RH). The V-10 transmissions will swap but no other. The 727 in an M880 is a small block version that only mates to other small blocks. Since it's a full time 4WD version with a NP203, no other transfer case can be used with it either.

The 727 in the tugs should be a standard 727, it's the rear axle gearing that is really low.

 

[maddawg308]

No, the 727 that mates to the Cummins is a special housing. Same with the later A518 (46RH). The V-10 transmissions will swap but no other. The 727 in an M880 is a small block version that only mates to other small blocks. Since it's a full time 4WD version with a NP203, no other transfer case can be used with it either.

The 727 in the tugs should be a standard 727, it's the rear axle gearing that is really low.

Would you recommend swapping in the 6BT/727 combo out of the tugs for an M880?

Thanks for the info on the swapping parts. That is good for future reference.

My friend has decided to ditch his 318 engine and put a 400 in it, that he is pulling out of another friend's Dodge Dart project. I know the 318 is a good engine, but his was pretty bad, needed a complete rebuild.

 

[cjtroutt]

Probably a dumb question - but does a 6BT actually mate with the TF727 we have in the M880's?

Yes the 6BTA will bolt to the 727 Trans but you will half to have detent cable
tork converter for diesel and govern change for shift point and valve body work done to work or perform as expected.
My best bet is find an 89-90 w350 4x4 and use all the trans & transfer case and axle and all of the 5.9 cummins parts it will work.
My self I stuff 6bta in Chevy older Dodges and Fords and min rig.
also stuff one into a custon 34 ford rat rod.

 

[Elwenil]

Yes the 6BTA will bolt to the 727 Trans but you will half to have detent cable.

This is incorrect. The stock M880 727 will NOT bolt to a 6BT.

 

[cjtroutt]

This is incorrect. The stock M880 727 will NOT bolt to a 6BT.

Why dont you read all what was printed down
also you can bolt any engine & trans combo to an Cummins its all in the adapter plate & bell housing go to any cummins dealer and ask for acc or options book that why over 31 years installing adn re building cummins engines in general small block or big block is what you order as of cummins 6bta will work if you buy all the parts $1800.00 to adapt 2600.00 for full install kit. Buy Engine from cummins for your app it will cost you $8100.00 new isb design.
As for what I said use 89-90 w350 cummins 6bta from radiator to T case
install lock outs in front axle or replace Both from a Donner truck
I bought 3 - 89 1 - 90 & 1 fld 70 this last year for doner truck to in stall in to 1 M880 & 4 CUCV and one of cucv has Fld 70 engine it is mine any one seen My will very FYI it looks factory.

 

[Elwenil]

I did read it but the way you quoted his question and then said "yes" it seems as if you were saying yes to his question, which would be incorrect as a small block 727 will not bolt to a Cummins 6BT with the Dodge adaptor plate or not. The Dodge transmissions used with the Cummins are specific to the Cummins and V10 trucks. You need to be more clear in your posts as the run on sentences and lack of punctuation make them hard to read.

 

[crasheej]

I took the 318 out of my 78 and installed a 383 with air . I got a new dash with all the goodies . Then found the correct bellhousing ,different radiator as the inlet, outlets were on opposite corners . Was mostly a bolt in project. Also went the 4 barrel carburetor , part time 4 wheel kit . Likes the gas stations but has the power.

 

[mf5129]

take an 89 to 93 gen 1 dodge 6bt and 727 replace the output shaft and the swap can be done with your exsisting parts.however i would recommend a 205 transfer case.you will still have full time axle.a 4bt engine will fit with little trouble.it would have more torque than stock 318.a 4bt is easily found in a van.the output shaft may be available in a wrecking yard or trans rebuilder. i have 2 1989 dodge 350s with the 6bt 12v engine and they are bulletproof they get 20+ mpg consistently when towing and about 24 on the road.it is easy to upgrade.and easy to service.the best diesel ever made.

 

[tractorfix]

I love my 93 Cummins truck, it pulls good and sips fuel, BUT the 78 440 truck it replaced would run CIRCLES around it. Mind you it barely got 12MPG. Although it was quite entertaining going thru an intersection sideways in a 5500lb pig truck. I will always miss her.