First time Cracking into the Military Truck world.

[LaHaver]

]Hello All,

I had a unique opportunity placed before me to purchase a 1954 M135 Deuce and a Half. I was initially looking for an old Dodge plow truck for winter or a MF tractor front end loader. Either of the two would cost me between $2,000-$10,000.


To keep it simple. I Seen on Kijiji The Deuce for 800 bucks with a 10 foot plow, Slept on it, went and seen it, Had to have it!!! She was sitting for 10 years a mile back in the woods. I spent an afternoon with the owner and got her running ( half the time was scraping off the engine of porcupine and squirrel mess). I said to him as long as it started ( ruling out being seized) and moved back and forth I would buy it.


So now it rests on my property for the time being while I go over it all to get it in smooth running order. This was far from in great condition but my basic standards were met; starts, ides, moves, solid frame.

The photos are just after we got running.Alot bigger on level ground then when it was almost a food into the ground.





Now onto what is currently on my plate of what I want to insure are done correctly.

Brakes
I found a chewed through line going from a 3way block to the top of the Transmission.
-Had a new cable made ( 16 bucks)
-Checked over for any bad lines, everything seems good.
-Checked the brake fluid reservoir, empty.
-Pressure now holds at 60 psi after a minute or two of running.
-No brakes though.

So

First; I need to add brake fluid, but which kind? DOT 3, DOT 4 or DOT5?
Secondly; Do I need to bleed the lines to each wheel?

My experience is limited to cars and 1/2 ton trucks.
This whole Air assist has me puzzled as to where the fluid stops and the air begins.


Transmission

It's low when I checked. Going to do a complete drain. I've read everything I could find as to which kind of Fluid to use. Seeing how they did not have ATF or Hy-Tran when the Hydra-Matics were made. I've seen a good balance of people use either Hy-Tran of ATF. Even some with 10W oil. I will most likely go with ATF multi-vehicle.


http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5673/img001632010091918481.jpg

 

[YkDave]

The brake setup is air assist, it is full hydraulic from the pedal to the wheels. Same kind of concept as a vac or hydro assist you find on regular automotive applications.

You should only need to bleed the upper cylinder at each wheel. General rule of thumb is to start bleeding at the cylinder fartherst away from the master cylinder and work your way closer. dont forget to bleed the airpack (mounted to the passenger side framerail).

I used DOT3 in the couple of trucks i have done. And if the system is anywhere near dry, bring LOTS. Mine was pretty much dry (new cylinders installed before i got it) and it took about a gallon of brake fluid to fill it!

As for the trans, i figured if 10w oil has worked for the last 60 years, it would work for the next few years...

 

[LaHaver]

Thanks YKDave,

Sounds good to me! I'll pick up a Gallon of Dot 3, as for the transmission is the 10W of conventional automotive oil ok ( I have 15 litres of thatleft ) or should I get the Heavyduty 10W stuff? same price for 20 litres of each.

 

[YkDave]

For the trans i would say your probably best off staying away from the mainstream conventional oils which tend to be whacked full of additives.

I used the el-cheapo 'heavy duty' 10w crap. very little aditives, and cheap as dirt

Remember, when these things were built (50+ years ago) things were pretty primative. Oil has come a long way over that time, even the cheapest/crappiest oil you can find these days is likely light years abouve what these things were designed around and have been using!

 

[jb31]

im new to the site aswell and bought my 135 with a v plow and had the same questions about the brake system, motor was stuck and had no spark but she is runnen and moven now but wont stop. im redoen the fuel system first then onto the brakes. keep the post updated with your brake system status alot of us are still learning just like u, thanks

 

[LaHaver]

Will Do, I'll take more photos when I get a chance, Going right now to pick up the 1 gallon of DOT 3 and some Heavy 10 oil. I'll be gentle on the bleed fittings this evening

After this it will be the exhaust manifold(cracked)

 

[YkDave]

If you want, i could check out the manifold on my parts truck. It might still be good if you want to work out a deal....

If not, the one thats in my running truck right now is in great shape (well, it was a few weeks ago when i was under the hood last LOL) and that engine will be getting pulled soon for a 6B cummins swap.

Just an option if you dont want to dink around with trying to repair a cracked manifold!

 

[LaHaver]

Thanks YkDave for the offer. I'll see whats what here in the next few days. There are a couple options around here I need to check out( including an old staight 6 motor laying back in the woods I need to see about..lol)

I figure with any manifold I get, I should get it plained at a machine shop and find somewhere to get a good gasket.


This morning I got brakes working on the Deuce. Did just as you said and started at the back wheels and moved forward. I didn't snap any of the bleed screws thankfully, however I couldn't get one on the middle wheel, passenger side and the one on top of the air unit under in the frame. I'd prefer to get all the air out to have maximum braking power.So I may drill them out...

I got to drive her around the yard, maintaining 60-70 Psi. So now onto the manifold so I can get some back pressure! and relative quiet

 

[WOLFMAN1]

looks like you got a good restore project congrats

 

[nattieleather]

There are two types of GMCs. One's with exhust manifold problems and those that will get manifold problems. The thing with the manifold is that if your going to have it milled you need to have the head milled with it (IMHO) so that they meet up with no problems. Otherwise you may still end up with a leak. And trust me I know. My GMC had the same issue and it would smoke me out of the cab sometimes.

Good looking truck and welcome to the world of MVs. You now have OD disease and I'm sorry to inform you that there is no cure for it....Thank goodness...

 

[LaHaver]

Well I hope it all turns out well with her. I picked up 2 sets of chains for it this evening for 100 bucks a set never used. I figure one in the rear and one in the front. The guy said he has 3 sets...but turns out his sons or someone took a set.

So I guess the whole getting a good gasket to sandwich between will not be enough...I may try and get luck first with a new gasket before going to get them milled. Since this isn't going to be seeing the road. HoweverI have been choked out of the cab already.....Time and oppertunities will tell.

Theres another old one, rougher shape down theroad 5-10 kms or so I may try and pick up. I can honestly see me sweeping anything up that I can find.

 

[M215]

Check all the rubber brake hoses, replace anything that looks bad. On the military brake system if you loose one line = no brakes. When changing the intake / exhaust manifold gasket check to see if the aligning insert rings are there. Be careful not to over tighten the manifold bolts.
Nice truck, love those M135s

 

[Oldfart]

When I was working for GMC Truck and Coach back in 1956, it was single weight NON-Detergent Oil. Multi-weight oils were just coming out and detergents were mostly used in the laundry room. It is a little hard to find now, but as mentioned single weight Non-Detergent is the cheap stuff. My father-in-law used to buy single weight non-detergent oil for his old Allis Chalmers tractor in 30 gallon drums from the fuel supplier who filled his stand gas tank. I have seen threads where people have converted to ATF, and I have wondered if farm grade tractor hydraulic fluid would work. At this point, my transmission is operating on the oil used by the U.S. Army what ever that was.

 

[73m819]

be careful drilling out the bleeders, if you go to deep, they wont seal, then its a new cylinder

 

[Mastertech]

Do yourself and the trans a favor and use the HyTran Tractor fluid in it. It has the additive package that the trans needs Now they may have not had this fluid back then but it is availabe now and that is what the trans needs now.

 

[LaHaver]

Update;

Carb and Manifold setup are removed. I finally got to check out all thenumbers on the engine. ITs a rebuilt motor but not sure 100% if it's a 302. I would really like to know for sure before ordering/buying parts.

This is what I found;


SN on Dash# 113505130

Intake Manifold - 2194216
Head - B CWC 2193983
Side of Engine - 2194202 GMC-1
- Rebuild Silver labal dated - 25 05 2
- Little numbers on side - C 24 4

I did not come across a 302 so far. The previous owner said thats what's in it.....But I'd rather confirm it with someone who knows how the numbers work. I read that , for instance the C 24 4 means March 24th 19#4


With the transmission, I havn't changed the fluid it yet since I'm focusing on the manifold fix. It's well beyond a weld job. once I got it off to access.

 

[YkDave]

Do yourself and the trans a favor and use the HyTran Tractor fluid in it. It has the additive package that the trans needs Now they may have not had this fluid back then but it is availabe now and that is what the trans needs now.

Something that was designed and built 50+ years before that particular oil was marketed, all of a sudden 'needs' it?!?!

LOL, im sorry, but thats just funny.

But, everyone has their own opinions on what types of fluids to use, and for the most part the bloody thing could probably last a while running gear oil or squirrel piss. Just because some fancy new oil appears to work great, doesnt mean that its additives are not slowly eating up the soft parts of the tranny...

Guys typically use the JD Hygard or Case Hytran in their automatic trannys (on newer trucks) to help a tranny that starts slipping. It works awesome, the clutches grab great, for about a week until every last bit of the friction material is torn off of the plate because it grabs so hard! Maybe these tranny dont react quite so badly (less clutch apply pressure) but i would still not bother with it!

If its not broke, why fix it? these tranny have been running 10w oil since they left the factory 50+ years ago, and it obviously seems to work half decent.

 

[Stan Leschert]

Follow this thread, and go where it tells you. Smart guys have already done your research for you.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/early-deuce/58544-hydramatic-trans-fluid.html

 

[Mastertech]

Thanx Stan like I said lets all just try to weed thru the B.S. and mis information ignore the people that are mis informed or are just trying to be confrontational (after all isnt that what Yahoo chat is for) keep our eye on the ball and push foward. Answer if you have something constructive to add.

and Yes YkDave you are sorry

MasterTech
Byron Parkinson
Maximum Performance Inc.
Puyallup Wa.

 

[Oldfart]

Update;

Carb and Manifold setup are removed. I finally got to check out all the numbers on the engine. ITs a rebuilt motor but not sure 100% if it's a 302. I would really like to know for sure before ordering/buying parts.

This is what I found;


SN on Dash# 113505130

Intake Manifold - 2194216
Head - B CWC 2193983
Side of Engine - 2194202 GMC-1
- Rebuild Silver label dated - 25 05 2
- Little numbers on side - C 24 4

I did not come across a 302 so far. The previous owner said thats what's in it.....But I'd rather confirm it with someone who knows how the numbers work. I read that , for instance the C 24 4 means March 24th 19#4


With the transmission, I havn't changed the fluid it yet since I'm focusing on the manifold fix. It's well beyond a weld job. once I got it off to access.

With all the experts here on Steel Soldiers, I am surprised your question about engine size has not been answered. Until that happens, I will throw in what I know. It is my understanding that all M200 series GMC trucks came with the 302. I also understand the WWII GMC CCKW and its variants came with the GMC 270 cu.in. engine. I do own a 1948 GMC 5 yard dump truck that I bought for its freshly rebuilt engine. I have done some research concerning this engine. It turns out GMC made a re-builders block with a heavier casting that could be bored to different sizes. I am told the block would build from 248 to 302 depending on the bore and in the case of the 248 using the proper stroke crank. I have also heard the 248 is not exactly the same engine as the 270/302. All these civilian engines had the first 3 digits of the serial number represent their cu. in. displacement. My problem with my civilian engine is it has no number of any kind on the serial no. boss. ~~ I don't know how GMC identified these engine for the military and I am anxious to learn. In the meantime, I would assume (unless someone had made a swap) your engine is a 302.