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Help Stuck!! Trying to help came back to bite me!

PropDr

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Location
Riverside Ca
Being a nice guy and trying to help people has backfired again. Yesterday I ventured into a filed with my deuce to recover a F-250 only to find out that the water table was only about 18" from the surface. Long story short the front end sank up to the bottom of the bumper.

If anybody can think of some advice or tricks on how to recover the truck or knows someone in the so-kal area with a 5 ton wrecker your help would be greatly appreciated.

Pics to follow

Thanks

Jay
 

PropDr

Member
127
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Location
Riverside Ca
thanks for the link Barne-the-duece.

Thanks Josh I'll have to try the rock idea. I have no idea how much it will help, its pretty soupy. I was thinking about trying quikrete, but that might backfire.
 

PropDr

Member
127
1
18
Location
Riverside Ca
Use gravel, sand and a shovel if that doesn't do it; then you'll need a tow.
Also, nopics
Tried the tow. Barneyszoo came out to lend a hand and in the process got the 5 ton stuck but winched himself out with his bobbed Deuce and my friends Kenworth dumptruck as an anchor. Then we rigged the cables to my truck and managed to pull it 15-20 feet then the PTO driveline on his truck let loose. Yes it had the alu pin through the yoke. It looked like the tube faild because of a undercut spot next to the weld.

Workin on the pics
 

dc3coyote

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This is more of a desperate measure thing but if your still running duals in the rear you can hook a chain or strap
around it and use it as a winch. This is again somthing to use when you have tried everything else. You may wind up breaking your valve
stems.

I really recommend that you are very carefull if you use this method, but it has worked for me several times in the past.
 

CARNAC

The Envelope Please.
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Highly suggest reading the Vehicle Recovery manual. There are a lot of good ideas and information in there. I'm always partial to the 1 foot at a time method of using a 4x4 chained to through the rims.
 

DUG

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Saw the pic of Phil's truck stuck. It was in there pretty good. What's your plan now?
 
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PropDr

Member
127
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18
Location
Riverside Ca
I'm going to try to lift the front end with a a-frame and a 8000lb come-a-long so i can get my overgrown homemade sand ladders under it. If I can't get it to move after that I'm going to dig a dead man anchor and winch it out by hand. It might take a week but I'll get it out.
 
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panshark

Member
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Location
Idaho Falls, ID
I've been in that situation before with my duece, and ended up sticking a bunch of logs under the front tires (after jacking the front end up), that didn't work as it sent all the logs straight to the basement. Jacked it up, put a couple square pieces of PLYWOOD under each tire, that worked to get the front tires up, and that's half the battle.

Be VERY CAREFUL if you jack your front end up in the following manner: run chain through holes in one (only one) front rim, padlock it. Use handyman jack to raise up the chain, using an old car or small trailer rim as a base for the jack. Might need 2 or 3 people to do this, as 2 may be pushing down on the jack, and third person is making sure jack isn't moving and about to KILL one of the guys pushing down on jack.

When I did this, I also had a cast aluminum locomotive jack on my front bumper, to help take the weight and danger off of the handyman jack.

FYI, jack the handyman can hurt you.

When you extract yourself, it would be nice to be chained to another vehicle on dry ground that's pulling on you as you try to get free.
 

PropDr

Member
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Location
Riverside Ca
Good info, thanks. I thought about lifting it one wheel at a time but my buddy managed to break my high lift yesterday trying to lift the entire front end in one shot.:doh: It wasn't pretty, luckily no one was hurt.
 

oldMan99

Member
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Location
Polk County, Florida
You know..... not being a smart a$$ at all but...

This is the second time in less than a week that the PTO pin sheered. Notice I did not say "Failed". It did not fail. It did it's job and committed suicide to save the winch from destroying itself in an overloaded situation.

Why did the pin have to shear in the first place? Simple, operator error.

What error?

Failure to use the proper equipment and technique for the job.

What equipment? What technique?

In both cases (This one and the one earlier in the week) it was clearly the failure to use one or more snatch blocks to double, triple or more the pulling force of the winch. In both cases, there was plenty of anchoring for the winching truck, just not enough available safe winch power to do the task in a straight line pull.

Guys, use of a snatch block for vehicle recovery is as basic as it gets.

Gunfighting 101, Chapter 1, page 1: Have a gun and know how to use it.

Winching 101, Chapter 1, page 1: Have a snatch block and know how to use it.

Owning a truck with a winch but not owning at least one or two or even three snatch blocks and enough extra cable to take advantage of them is, well, just plain silly.

As noted earlier in this thread: Read the vehicle recovery manual. It is packed full of all sorts of stuff you really need to know AND UNDERSTAND before you get into trouble. Using the correct tools with the correct techniques makes life so much simpler and SAFER. (Work smarter, not harder).

Also as noted in another part of this thread, take a look at this thread: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/62241-help-need-pulled-out-mud-houston-pasadena-tx.html it too has a lot of useful info including a minimum tools list that you should really consider for yourself. Even if you do not have a winch, most of the stuff in that list will be of use and when somebody finally does come up with a winch who is as unprepared as the vast majority of winch owners are, you will have the proper equipment and (Assuming you have read the vehicle recovery manual) the proper knowledge to properly and safely use it.

Also, even without a winch.. If you have the cable and somebody in a large enough vehicle to hook to to pull you out you can use the snatch blocks to multiply their ability to pull you out just as if their entire vehicle is a winch. Be careful not to shock load the cable, just take out the slack and slowly apply power. Smooth and easy. As the towing vehicle moves, so does the stuck vehicle. With enough cable and snatch blocks a VW can pull out a 5 ton buried to the fenders. OK... that is a bit extreme but you get the idea.

Remember Archimedes? "Give me a lever and I can move the world" Give me enough snatch blocks and enough cable to use them and.....

I have been 4 wheeling and off roading for many years and I have found that only a small portion of those proclaiming to be "Real off roaders" have a winch and only a small fraction of them have the proper tools and know how to correctly and safely use them. I just don't understand that.

Unfortunately, the last "Stuck" was in Texas, and this one is even further from me in California. Both way to far for me to even consider going to help.

This whole ordeal reminds me of a friend of mine who just got his first 4x4. He pulled up in my drive about 8pm and jumped out and was proud as a new Dad. I can't blame him, it was a real nice truck.

First thing he said was, "Now I have a real 4x4, I'll NEVER get stuck again"

I replied, "Now you need to get a winch, some proper tackle and some experience using it"

His reply was "Naw, don't need it"

My reply was, "Now that you have a 4x4 you'll still get stuck, only worse and in a worse place" He was having no part of that conversation so I dropped it.

4 hours later (Midnight) he was on the phone asking me to come pull him out.

Now that you have a really cool MV: You'll still get stuck, only worse and in worse places AND your going to need a lot larger equipment, more of it, and more know how to get out than your buddy in the Jeep....

When a Deuce, or 5 ton or HEMTT is stuck you really need to know what your doing and have the right gear.... Either that or like I noted in the other thread, an understanding buddy with an M88 is always nice to have on speed dial.

I'm just sayin.... 2cents
.
.
.
nopics
 

oldMan99

Member
479
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Location
Polk County, Florida
Not trying to be a know it all here and certainly not attempting to insult anyone in any way...

Be VERY CAREFUL
This is VERY GOOD advise. A hi-lift or "Tractor jack" or whatever you want to call it can literally kill if it is not used properly. In my off road vehicle I carry 2 of them and use them frequently. But proper use and caution are imperative.

if you jack your front end up in the following manner: run chain through holes in one (only one) front rim, padlock it. Use handyman jack to raise up the chain, using an old car or small trailer rim as a base for the jack.
PADLOCK IT??? No way is heck should you ever trust your life to a padlock used like that. Use a proper clevis or chain hook rated for the load your putting on it.

Might need 2 or 3 people to do this, as 2 may be pushing down on the jack, and third person is making sure jack isn't moving and about to KILL one of the guys pushing down on jack.
Never, ever have more than 1 person operating the lever part of the jack. If it takes more effort than one person can provide to the jack the load then you are overloading the jack. Read the jack manual, it will clearly tell you this. Also, having more than one person on the handle is an invitation to serious injury/death. Any miscommunication between these 2 operators and it can be very bad news.

When I did this, I also had a cast aluminum locomotive jack on my front bumper, to help take the weight and danger off of the handyman jack.
A very good idea. this is exactly why I carry 2.

FYI, jack the handyman can hurt you.
A vast understatement to be sure. I have personally seen one kill a man. Not pretty. Again, it can not be stressed enough, proper use of proper equipment is absolutely essential to a safe operation. Injury or death is a really horrible way to close out an outing.
 
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Barneyszoo

New member
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Location
Riverside, CA>
You guys have some good ideas, first, when you see the pix you will see how badly stut he was.
second the pin did not shear on the PTO shaft the shaft twisted in half. Pix comming soon.
 

oldMan99

Member
479
12
18
Location
Polk County, Florida
You guys have some good ideas, first, when you see the pix you will see how badly stut he was.
second the pin did not shear on the PTO shaft the shaft twisted in half. Pix comming soon.
I stand corrected. I went back and reread that post, he did say the shaft twisted, likely due to an improper weld. Understood. So.... to clarify, was a snatch block (or 2) in use at the time? Based on how badly you mentioned it was stuck, sounds like there is no question at least 1 should have been in use..

So.. the big question, you said, "How badly stuck he was stuck", does that mean the truck is now back to sleeping at his house rather in the field?
 
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