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LMTV FMTV Max Elevation?

Keith Knight

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I’m a flat lander from Florida driving an 2003 M1079A1 with a 3126B asking the question!

As I’m currently parked at 8,800 ft above sea level.

What is the maximum elevation our trucks can reliably start and operate?
What effect does elevation have on diesel engines?
Max elevation for the 3116?
Max elevation for the 3126B?
Max elevation for the C5?
 

MatthewWBailey

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I’m a flat lander from Florida driving an 2003 M1079A1 with a 3126B asking the question!

As I’m currently parked at 8,800 ft above sea level.

What is the maximum elevation our trucks can reliably start and operate?
What effect does elevation have on diesel engines?
Max elevation for the 3116?
Max elevation for the 3126B?
Max elevation for the C5?
I'm no expert but I've driven mine over the top of Grand Mesa with a load of wood. It's 11,500' over the top. I didn't notice any power drop off on the hills.
 

TOBASH

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N/a Diesel hates elevation. Supercharged Diesel does ok. IIRC, FMTV are all turbo.
 

Skyhawk13205

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I’m a flat lander from Florida driving an 2003 M1079A1 with a 3126B asking the question!

As I’m currently parked at 8,800 ft above sea level.

What is the maximum elevation our trucks can reliably start and operate?
What effect does elevation have on diesel engines?
Max elevation for the 3116?
Max elevation for the 3126B?
Max elevation for the C5?
I think there is a rating of power at max altitude listed on the data plate, mine has a 3000ft listing. I assume there is just a loss of power for elevation gained.

do you have any noticeable loss of power at 8k?
 

Keith Knight

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No power loss? Yet! But just curious what starting it at higher altitudes will be like. Is it a concern or can I drive it to 20,000 feet with out concern?
 

Skyhawk13205

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No power loss? Yet! But just curious what starting it at higher altitudes will be like. Is it a concern or can I drive it to 20,000 feet with out concern?
I think every 1000 feet is like something of a 4-5% pressure drop. It may also be non linear the higher up you go. You would have to find some engineering data or test done at altitude to confirm that the engines can operate at your desired altitude.

found an interesting test done for diesel engines


I have always wondered if my truck can run at high altitudes but I can barely keep mine running at sea level.
 

Keith Knight

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That explains a lot.
Why she was slower to start and why there was more black smoke even after warming up.
I think the overall conclusion is:
Expect it to take longer to start, slight loss of power and not burning the fuel as efficiently causing e
 

MatthewWBailey

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That explains a lot.
Why she was slower to start and why there was more black smoke even after warming up.
I think the overall conclusion is:
Expect it to take longer to start, slight loss of power and not burning the fuel as efficiently causing e
Yes that article works in both directions. It illustrates the effects of lower O2 clearly.
 

Ronmar

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one factor is engine type. a mechanical has no real way to know how much lower the pressure is, and delivers fuel mostly on engine RPM and governor input setting with perhaps a little boost pressure monitoring to limit full fuel application until adequate boost is detected.
so less air = more fuel or richer mixture at no/low boost. but since the governor is delivering fuel based on RPM, it will taylor fuel delivery to whatever rate is required to maintain its pedal commanded RPM. Probably the most felt at startup as the engine is cranking and the rack is at the startup position without any boost and delivering fuel for what is normally atmospheric pressure. but again as soon as it fires the governor will adjust fuel to meet required idle RPM.

The mechanical wastegate actuator typically pushes against a mechanical spring, and that doesn't change with altitude, so within its limits to do so, under load the turbo will add more air to reach that same wastegate spring pressure and should continue to mostly deliver rated boost pressure... Starting with a thinner source air, the turbo will probably eventually hit a point where it is unable to continue to make rated boost as altitude increases. Depending how severe this gets it may cause the governor Fuel Ratio Control(anti coal device:) to limit full fuel rack/delivery... but once you run out of boost you are probably going to over-fuel if the engine cannot reach the commanded RPM.

Now the EFI component of HEUI systems probably looks at atmospheric pressure(I think the C7 does, the 3126 may not?) which could help it taylor delivery based on atmospheric pressure. This might only really be noticed during startup and un-boosted conditions, but again, since we are not throttling air and fuel and an established A/F ratio to control the engine RPM, the system will deliver the fuel it deems necessary to reach the RPM commanded by the RPM/speed selector(right pedal)...

O course neither system monitors final result like a gas system does with O2 sensors and closed loop regulation...

There is a term in aviation called turbo normalized, usually a rating with an altitude associated with it, like 10,000FT, which means that the aircraft will have the same HP at that altitude as it does at sea level.

In terms of a diesel, it should also apply. your turbo normalized altitude will be the altitude where you can still achieve full boost pressure form the turbo. when peak boost starts to fall off, you have used up all your turbo's overhead and the maximum torque you can create will start to fall off and your governor/ECU will have a tendency to over-fuel if you cannot meet commanded RPM...
 
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MatthewWBailey

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Now the EFI component of HEUI systems probably looks at atmospheric pressure(I think the C7 does, the 3126 may not?)
My 3126 was detuned to 275 from nameplate but the 330 retune by General required the atmospheric pressure sensor which was not installed on the block. I added it and the black smoke is non existent at starts over 40F now at 7300'
 

Ronmar

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Yep and that was one of the points of going EFI, to clean up the exhaust using engine temp and pressure to fine tune the fuel. All a mechanical knows is dump fuel to get commanded RPM.

Without an O2 sensor, opacity sensor, or an EGT to close the loop, I suspect the HEUi may revert a little closer to a straight governed mode of operation at higher power, and if you overload the top end of a HEUI(command more RPM than it can deliver at a given load) it may roll a little coal. But given that it has more than 2 braincells to rub together, it may be able to reason this out and taylor the fuel delivery back to just enough to hold what it’s got. IE: the knucklehead behind the wheel is commanding 100%/max governed RPM with a pinned gas pedal, but I can’t get over 75%, so I will roll the fuel back to just enough to hold this RPM…

where a mechanical governor only really knows difference between commanded and actual RPM. I am at 75%, Master is commanding 100%, shovel fuel, up to and including full rack if there is enough boost for the ratio control to release the Kraken… this is where the knucklehead behind the wheel needs to know enough to roll back the pedal to reduce the governor difference between commanded and actual RPM to try and reduce the excess fuel(lowest pedal that still maintains RPM)…
 
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