Reefer, conex, box.... So many options

So... You know I like to overanalyze things. I need input.

I originally got an M934 but realized the length was a limitation and the way the body expanded was virtually useless for planning purposes. I sold it.

I figured I'd get a deuce (And I did) then realized that due to parts availability, probably wasn't the best vehicle to use as a daily driver.... Sold it.

Meanwhile, I picked up a 16' van body (box truck 'box') and was planning on what truck to get and ended up with an M939A2. I got it dirt cheap. I ended buying about $800 in aluminum that I'd need to finish the inside and close up the front and rear (Sliding door removed). I was going to insulate it as well.

Meanwhile the world has fallen apart around us, and the cost of insulation has balloned from $800-1200 to well over $3K.. putting that much time and effort into that box is a waste of time and money.

So, I'm now left with basically 2 options.....

1) A reefer van body. 6"+ insulation on all sides means I can pretty much heat it with a candle and my body heat in 30* weather. Downside is....you start doing the math on how much space that removes from the interior and I'm left with 7x15x6.5 (WxLxH) and I'm 6'2 so basically means I can't mount anything on the ceiling. The other issue is any wiring will have to be on the wall in conduit, which actually isn't a problem at all, but what is a problem is then mounting lights, antennas, and other necessary items to the exterior and finding secure ways to run wires to the interior without destroying half the insulation. Also a fiberglass body, which means can't really repair on the side of the road. The van body can be directly mounted to the frame. STD frame width.

2. A cut down conex or reefer. This presents its own issues as well. If it's a reefer we run right back into insulation being present and having to be worked around, but at least the box is metal... If it's a plain ISO box then I will have to insulate it but I can permanently install any lights, electrical,antenna, etc I need. Metal conducts temps so nowhere near as good insulation. It also means I have less money to spend on insulation because the walls are corrugated, which means I'm also going to get uneven insulation. A STD reefer (As opposed to a HC) has more height than the van body reefer. Then I run into issues of mounting. While the van body can mount directly, a conex cannot just be dropped on the frame without extensive modification.

I really do like metal boxes....and much prefer them for their durability and ease of labor for modifying/repairing. But each present their own challenges and benefits.

Thoughts?

Keep in mind, a reefer can be mostly air tight. That can cause you to take a deep slumber if you heat it or cook inside without a good ventilation source.

How about a box off a medium duty ambulance?

WillWagner said:

Keep in mind, a reefer can be mostly air tight. That can cause you to take a deep slumber if you heat it or cook inside without a good ventilation source.

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Already accounted for. I plan on multiple vents. The venting system will have both fan driven (through an air exchanger) and through filtration - I was hoping to have multiple smaller vents that are less visible, and fed via 2" or so PCV with bends so light doesn't escape. The air filtering material will also help with that. Basically 2 vents for 'normal' use. 2-4 vents that will create positive pressure that are heavily filtered - having been in wildfire zones - and in areas impacted by wildfire smoke even from wildfires 200+ miles away making it hard to breathe, filtration is pretty important to me. I also want to have the option to completely shut everything down and run on internal oxygen. Co2 levels will become dangerous well before I run out of oxygen. If my calculations are correct I'd be able to get about 8-12 hours before co2 concentration starts giving me headaches. This is so if I'm driving through an area impacted by wildfires, the living compartment won't be contaminated and smell like a chimney for the next 18 months.

Cab filtration will be near impossible so the options are an SCBA which is impractical due to cost, maintenance, storage space required) a MASSIVE GPFU in order to create positive pressure in the cab, which is not really gonna be possible due to how holy these cabs are and how expensive and cumbersome a system that large would be, or, what I actually plan on - a gas mask with a positive pressure attachment (basically a fan that pushes air through the filter to your mask instead of the filter being on the mask itself. Only downside to forced air is it pretty much cuts the usable filter time in half.


I basically want to be inside, with ZERO indication outside that someone is in there - even if listening to music, or cooking dinner.

Stove is going to be induction with propane backup - both vented through filtration to eliminate smoke/smells as best as possible.

DMax82 said:

How about a box off a medium duty ambulance?

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Not big enough and simultaneously ridiculously overbuilt without much room for modification.

For your cab positive displacement system, check these out. As for the systems, I know people that own all of the ones listed below, I do not have a system, you don't need it when you are in front! I DO have the SB particle separator system on my cars intake and I can tell you that it works. On a trip lasting 6 days, I used to have to clean the air filter daily, replaced it after 3 days. The filters are $50. a pop. Since installing this 6 years ago, have not needed to change the filter once. the air box is almost dust free and if removed for cleaning, it is hard to see any dust/dirt. I couldn't believe it at first, I went as far as getting black poster board and tapped the filter on the board. The only thing that came out after a week of running 8000 RPM and 500 miles were small bits of sand, and not too much of that!

WillWagner said:

For your cab positive displacement system, check these out. As for the systems, I know people that own all of the ones listed below, I do not have a system, you don't need it when you are in front! I DO have the SB particle separator system on my cars intake and I can tell you that it works. On a trip lasting 6 days, I used to have to clean the air filter daily, replaced it after 3 days. The filters are $50. a pop. Since installing this 6 years ago, have not needed to change the filter once. the air box is almost dust free and if removed for cleaning, it is hard to see any dust/dirt. I couldn't believe it at first, I went as far as getting black poster board and tapped the filter on the board. The only thing that came out after a week of running 8000 RPM and 500 miles were small bits of sand, and not too much of that!

Parker Pumper Helmet, Co.

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Take control of your air with this helmet air pumper systems. Increase air flow and eliminate dust. Perfect for desert racing and recreation uses.

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Helmet Pumper With Particle Separator Technology

S&B 76-6000 - With our Helmet Blower Particle Separator, you get the same great airflow to your helmet all day long because there is no filter to clog. Our helmet fresh air blower with Particle Separator technology removes 98% of the dust so there is no need for a filter.

sbfilters.com

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I already have gas masks, filters,, etc that will do much better than just a simple dust filter.

The positive pressure system add-ons for them are like $50. Thanks to Israel handing them out to their citizens like candy in the event of a chemical attack, they're readily available.

The particle separator looks interesting but dust/debris is a lot different than smoke from a wildfire, as an example.

One of the biggest disappointments with the military habs (AAR, etc) is the thermal bridging and poor insulation values.

A refer box would be an interesting start, IMO.

I originally wanted to go with an ambo box, but by the time you gut one you lose any rollover protection it included. You lose any pre-installed insulation (which is honestly pretty much crap slabs of pink fiber). And you lose the benefit of it being pre-wired (because most all of that has to come out as well).

One thing that flags in my mind about a refer box is having to run wiring. I've no clue if they are channeled with wire ducts or what. But I'd not worry about suffocation or ventilation. That's easy-peasy to address safely.

I've got it pretty good down here. It's always hot and I spend most all of my waking ours outside of the hab. I only have to cool it at night. And only have to heat it during the winter (ie: February). LOL

I've been looking for a suitable box to start my habitat for my M1078A1R. Just looked at a 1079 van body, would be easy since it will bolt right on, but it's smaller than I want, isn't very thermally efficient, and they unfortunately apparently use wood as the thermal break material, so that's a non-starter.

My ideal box is a fiberglass/rigid insulation sandwich panel box. Total composites panels aren't durable enough due to the very thin fiberglass face laminates. Also too expensive for what you get. Globe Trekker panels look quite durable, but are crazy expensive.

I've been looking for a reefer box I can pick up for a reasonable cost, but hard to find anything that is the aforementioned sandwich panel construction and isn't beat to death. Check this youtube video and channel out for a great build that employed this strategy. Unfortunately, reefer boxes built like this seem to be very rare in the US.

GCecchetto said:

1079 van body, would be easy since it will bolt right on, but it's smaller than I want, isn't very thermally efficient, and they unfortunately apparently use wood as the thermal break material, so that's a non-starter.

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One thing about the AAR shelters (for the M1079) is they do not (as far as I've ever seen) use any wood in the construction (they are all aluminum framed and skinned with foam panels). If they had used wood (as many of the other shelter makers did in fact include), the thermal bridging that they suffer from would be less of an issue. I actually added a layer of insulation and wooden frame/paneling to my interior to break the thermal bridging. The military solution was to just throw massively overpowered cooling/heat units at the problem.

But military shelters come in various sizes, too. You might keep looking (but research the manufacturer and the materials used, because some do in fact include wood).

Just fyi.

Third From Texas said:

One thing about the AAR shelters (for the M1079) is they do not (as far as I've ever seen) use any wood in the construction (they are all aluminum framed and skinned with foam panels). If they had used wood (as many of the other shelter makers did in fact include), the thermal bridging that they suffer from would be less of an issue. I actually added a layer of insulation and wooden frame/paneling to my interior to break the thermal bridging. The military solution was to just throw massively overpowered cooling/heat units at the problem.

But military shelters come in various sizes, too. You might keep looking (but research the manufacturer and the materials used, because some do in fact include wood).

Just fyi.

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There is a thread here on the forum about a 1079 van body CAD model. In that thread, someone linked another thread about a guy that was building out a 1079 body and he posted that the framing members in the box used a strip of wood on between the faces of the framing members and the interior and exterior aluminum skins. He also said the framing in his box was steel, not aluminum, which isn't a great idea for obvious reasons although, if the wood is used as he said, that would mitigate the issue of dissimilar metals. If you compare the weight of the 1079 van body to that of the S280 shelter in the AAR guide, the 1079 van body is way heavier, so maybe the framing is steel.

If the framing is all aluminum and no wood is used, it might put the 1079 body back on my list, although it is shorter than I want and adding an extension doesn't work well with my plan for a garage to carry bicycles.

GCecchetto said:

I've been looking for a suitable box to start my habitat for my M1078A1R. Just looked at a 1079 van body, would be easy since it will bolt right on, but it's smaller than I want, isn't very thermally efficient, and they unfortunately apparently use wood as the thermal break material, so that's a non-starter.

My ideal box is a fiberglass/rigid insulation sandwich panel box. Total composites panels aren't durable enough due to the very thin fiberglass face laminates. Also too expensive for what you get. Globe Trekker panels look quite durable, but are crazy expensive.

I've been looking for a reefer box I can pick up for a reasonable cost, but hard to find anything that is the aforementioned sandwich panel construction and isn't beat to death. Check this youtube video and channel out for a great build that employed this strategy. Unfortunately, reefer boxes built like this seem to be very rare in the US.

Click to expand...

I ended up buying a reefer with a non-functioning cooling unit. Gonna add a mini-split, solar, and add'l lighting. Already has 3+ inches of closed cell foam insulation on all 6 sides.

There's a company up in WA that has 16' boxes for ~$1500..

I found mine on FB marketplace searching 'reefer'

TechnoWeenie said:

I ended up buying a reefer with a non-functioning cooling unit. Gonna add a mini-split, solar, and add'l lighting. Already has 3+ inches of closed cell foam insulation on all 6 sides.

There's a company up in WA that has 16' boxes for ~$1500..

I found mine on FB marketplace searching 'reefer'

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That's been my main search platform as well, but no love yet, and so many sellers are just flakes. Is your box fiberglass skinned, and can you post some photos here? Also, can you provide a link to the place selling them in WA? Thanks

GCecchetto said:

There is a thread here on the forum about a 1079 van body CAD model. In that thread, someone linked another thread about a guy that was building out a 1079 body and he posted that the framing members in the box used a strip of wood on between the faces of the framing members and the interior and exterior aluminum skins. He also said the framing in his box was steel, not aluminum, which isn't a great idea for obvious reasons although, if the wood is used as he said, that would mitigate the issue of dissimilar metals. If you compare the weight of the 1079 van body to that of the S280 shelter in the AAR guide, the 1079 van body is way heavier, so maybe the framing is steel.

If the framing is all aluminum and no wood is used, it might put the 1079 body back on my list, although it is shorter than I want and adding an extension doesn't work well with my plan for a garage to carry bicycles.

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And it may very well be true. AAR made a lot of various shelters for the military for a lot of years (at least since 2000,iirc).

I can only speak to my experience. The hab on my 2008 is 100% aluminum. I've cut cores out of the walls to make openings for the fridge, water heater, and various connections. The walls panels and floor are all alum/foam/alum sandwich (I've not cut the roof). I've drilled into the frame to tap and it's alum. All the external cornering and hardware is all alum (sans the lifting rings and their bracing). Even the giant, heavy leading edge protector along the front is alum on mine.

But as I said, AAR made a lot of various boxes. So at least all the small-window shelters were from AAR (not sure of the older big-window boxes, but I think they were as well). And I'm pretty sure all the small-window units are 100% aluminum. I've cut, drilled, tapped, and run magnets over every square inch of the sides and floor. Oddly, I don't recall ever testing the roof but I will next time I have it open or am on the top.

GCecchetto said:

That's been my main search platform as well, but no love yet, and so many sellers are just flakes. Is your box fiberglass skinned, and can you post some photos here? Also, can you provide a link to the place selling them in WA? Thanks

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I found this. Not sure if it's the same, but looks like it.

*old auction of course

These guys seem to have quite a few reefer units:

*mostly Canada

*mostly mid US

GCecchetto said:

That's been my main search platform as well, but no love yet, and so many sellers are just flakes. Is your box fiberglass skinned, and can you post some photos here? Also, can you provide a link to the place selling them in WA? Thanks

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Looks to be steel framing with foam sandwiched between FRP inside/out. with an aluminum floor. I can grab pics later.

The second one in the list that says 'SOLD!' is the one I bought. They had another 5-6 there and what was about a month ago. I'd call them and ask if you're really interested. They were asking $1800 or so and I walked them down $1400+tax or somewhere around there.