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Getting gas mix into engine block

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Valdek Parik

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My 1960 REO Firetruck M44 gasser is getting gas into the block, oil system. I'm seeing a fair amount of gassy smelling oil leaking from the bellhousing drain opening. I initially was thinking there was a leak from the fuel pump but now I am thinking the breather system is not functioning properly. Fuel pump is off and will will bring it to a shop to be inspected. I am going to inspect and clean the one valve(?) on the tubing entering the block and the distributer within the breather system. Mainly surprised that so much fuel would leak through this system and it appears that the rear sel has failed to allow the leak. I'm wondering about recommended test methods of the breather system. Oil dip stick appears normal but truck is parked on a slope. Oil that is leaking is lighter in viscosity and smells gassy. I hate to have to replace the engine oil more than once.

Regarding fuel pump. When I was reconditioning the fuel system before first start of the truck, I disassembled the pump and noticed no issues and reassembled. Now I did notice that the arrows on the body are not aligned with inlet and outlet, but pretty sure it was reassembled as taken apart.

Appreciate any helpful feedback.
 

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WillWagner

WillWagner

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Fuel gets in the crankcase two ways. 1, the fuel pump, 2, the carburetor.

The rear main is most likely leaking due to the oil level over full and thin.

I would not drive it in that condition. Change the oil and maybe, but you will take a chance of ruining some bearings.

The gas will act as a solvent and when the oil gets hot, the gas takes the oil film off of the crank journals and the engine will lock up, that is best case. Worst case, the bearings grab the rotating mass and then metal transfers locking the engine and sending metal throughout the system before it actually locks up.

We had an M8 that one of the guys at the Museum did not do any pre use checks. Well, the carb had a stuck float. It still ran, but smoked black, guess he thought that was OK? After it was parked and sat for a period of time and came time to use it again, during the pre trip, there was no oil showing on the stick. Pushed it back into the shop, did an oil change and that is when I found the filter was not installed and the housing had blocked off holes for the supply. It had been used for years like that! After cleaning it up and doing a fluid change, it cranked very slow, I thiught it was a starter. Put another one on, same thing. Tried turning the engine by hand and couldn't!

I dropped the pan and noticed that the rods looked dry. Pulled some caps and found dried gas/oil on the crank and bearings. When I dropped the caps, it smelled like gas even after sitting. I had to pull bearings, clean each journal and used 100% alcohol to remove the baked on crusties from all of the bearings.

After re installing the bearings, I force fed it oil and laid under it to make sure oil was getting to the bearings with the engine turning. Thankfully, no crank/bearing damage. The M8 still works well today
 
NDT

NDT

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One of your pics shows the PCV (crankcase ventilation) valve, it could be plugged. Really, other than carburetor floods, the only way on this engine that you will see raw gasoline getting into the crankcase is if you have a cracked diaphragm in your fuel pump. This can happen quickly if the rubber is ancient. Stunning Reo you have there!
 
Mullaney

Mullaney

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Valdek Parik said:
My 1960 REO Firetruck M44 gasser is getting gas into the block, oil system. I'm seeing a fair amount of gassy smelling oil leaking from the bellhousing drain opening. I initially was thinking there was a leak from the fuel pump but now I am thinking the breather system is not functioning properly. Fuel pump is off and will will bring it to a shop to be inspected. I am going to inspect and clean the one valve(?) on the tubing entering the block and the distributer within the breather system. Mainly surprised that so much fuel would leak through this system and it appears that the rear sel has failed to allow the leak. I'm wondering about recommended test methods of the breather system. Oil dip stick appears normal but truck is parked on a slope. Oil that is leaking is lighter in viscosity and smells gassy. I hate to have to replace the engine oil more than once.

Regarding fuel pump. When I was reconditioning the fuel system before first start of the truck, I disassembled the pump and noticed no issues and reassembled. Now I did notice that the arrows on the body are not aligned with inlet and outlet, but pretty sure it was reassembled as taken apart.

Appreciate any helpful feedback.
Click to expand...
.
Well, I would suggest that you disassemble the fuel pump again. Carefully inspect the diaphragm. Even a pinhole will let gas through there. Any chance you might find a replacement diaphragm? Maybe look at White Owl over in Kinston NC?

I would let the rear main seal (RMS) draw back up to its original size once you clear up the "gas in the oil" problem. At least that is worth a try - rather than replacing the RMS.

I did a quick search and found a pump and a gasket kit too!

www.ebay.com

1939 - 1953 REO TRUCK C23 C25 F23 NEW MODERN FUEL PUMP KIT FOR TODAY'S FUEL USA | eBay

C23,C25,C256,D23,D23S,D23R,D236,E23,F23. 1947 MODEL C23,C25. THIS KIT FITS THE FOLLOWING REO TRUCK+BUSES 1939 TO 1947 MODELS 1948 TO 1953 MODELS 1952 TO 1953 MODELS NEW SINGLE ACTION FUEL PUMP KIT.
www.ebay.com

 
V

Valdek Parik

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Beaverton, OR
WillWagner said:
Fuel gets in the crankcase two ways. 1, the fuel pump, 2, the carburetor.

The rear main is most likely leaking due to the oil level over full and thin.

I would not drive it in that condition. Change the oil and maybe, but you will take a chance of ruining some bearings.

The gas will act as a solvent and when the oil gets hot, the gas takes the oil film off of the crank journals and the engine will lock up, that is best case. Worst case, the bearings grab the rotating mass and then metal transfers locking the engine and sending metal throughout the system before it actually locks up.

We had an M8 that one of the guys at the Museum did not do any pre use checks. Well, the carb had a stuck float. It still ran, but smoked black, guess he thought that was OK? After it was parked and sat for a period of time and came time to use it again, during the pre trip, there was no oil showing on the stick. Pushed it back into the shop, did an oil change and that is when I found the filter was not installed and the housing had blocked off holes for the supply. It had been used for years like that! After cleaning it up and doing a fluid change, it cranked very slow, I thiught it was a starter. Put another one on, same thing. Tried turning the engine by hand and couldn't!

I dropped the pan and noticed that the rods looked dry. Pulled some caps and found dried gas/oil on the crank and bearings. When I dropped the caps, it smelled like gas even after sitting. I had to pull bearings, clean each journal and used 100% alcohol to remove the baked on crusties from all of the bearings.

After re installing the bearings, I force fed it oil and laid under it to make sure oil was getting to the bearings with the engine turning. Thankfully, no crank/bearing damage. The M8 still works well today
Click to expand...
Wow! I appreciate your comments. I was fretting the day that I would need to do a carburetor rebuild. It appears fairly complex with the governor. Are gasket kits still available?
 

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rustystud

rustystud

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Valdek Parik said:
Wow! I appreciate your comments. I was fretting the day that I would need to do a carburetor rebuild. It appears fairly complex with the governor. Are gasket kits still available?
Click to expand...
Yes you can buy carb rebuild kits. I bought one just two weeks ago. Pricey but hey it was still available.
Here's the company's information.

"Mike's Carburetor Parts"
888-689-9758.
sales@mikescarb.com.

The biggest problem I found was the throttle plate rod and bearings. Yes this carb has ball bearings in it.
 
Last edited:
WillWagner

WillWagner

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There is a place in Weymouth Ma. called Then and Now Automotive. They make pump rebuild kits with parts compatible with the crappy gas we have now.

There is a place in Treadwell Ny. called Tredwell Carburetors. They might have kits, however, they mostly deal with Zenith Carburetors. They do have hard to find parts like inlet screens, original float needles and seats. If they do Holley stuff, there is a good chance that they have the throttle plate parts Rusty referred to.
 
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