5 ton ESP Prototype (M939/5TTR)

[fuzzytoaster]

I was skimming an old military vehicle publication circa 1997 and found an interesting truck. It appears there was consideration to remanufacture the 5 ton trucks like they did the M35A2 -> M35A3 ESP (Extended Service Program). The blurb says it has the same Cat 3116 and Allison 1545 as the M35A3 but the other typical features of the M939 trucks. So it's some middle of the road Frankenstein of a M939A2 chassis (assuming due to CTIS), M809 cab/hood/toolboxes, and M35A3 power package.

This was ultimately not pursued for production but I can't help but ask.. has anyone physically seen this truck before? Is it rotting in Uncle Sam's toybox or has it been scrapped? Maybe it was given to a Volunteer Fire Department. I really want to know more about it.

 

[NDT]

I think Wehring has or had one.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I think Wehring has or had one.

I have it now. It's different than this one in many ways. It's much closer to an M939A3 than anything else. M923A2 + Cat 3126 + Allison. I'll know more later this week when it arrives. The elements haven't been nice to it.

 

[US6x4]

Was there only one?

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Was there only one?

Not enough data known. The best we can conclude at the moment is the one in the photo.

 

[fsearls92]

I believe my friend has one, he is on here but can’t think of his screen name. It has the Cat motor in it.

 

[fsearls92]

His has the normal M939 hood, so not the same as your picture.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I believe my friend has one, he is on here but can’t think of his screen name. It has the Cat motor in it.

If you think of him let me know. I have one too I'm about to post on.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I managed to pick up this 5 Ton ESP (5TTR) truck today and it's unique. Cat 3126, 7 speed allison, M923A2 axles/cab/hood, and future 7 ton intake/exhaust system. Time hasn't been kind to it but all the oils are clean and tank is full of diesel. The hood, fenders, and doors are absolutely ravaged and will need to be replaced. The cab is in remarkably good condition to my surprise. The rest of the truck is a little flakey due to time in the elements.

I know the designer who headed the 5TTR protect at AM General and when I shared this he was astonished. He recalls 5 prototypes being made by them vs 6 builds submitted by Oshkosh. He said #1-#4 were made in his shop. By the data seen so far it's safe to assume these ESP prototypes evolved from the M939 (not M809) and moved toward the MTVR that we recognize today. The 5TTR program was too expensive to be viable vs buying new trucks so it was cut early on compared to the MTVR program which was running concurrently.

The truck with the M809 style hood in the first post was truck #1 and is the only one to be of that M809 style. I can only make a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) that it was heavily influenced by their previous push for a M809 ATAC truck. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/am-generals-atac-all-terrain-all-climate-m809-trucks.205821/ Heck, maybe it's the same truck but updated! I want to know what happened to this one especially.

User big block 88 posted a thread back in 2017 about a M939 with TAC4 suspension and it may very well have been a last finished 5TTR submission by Oshkosh. It does look rather polished and recognizabl by the photo. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/m939-with-tac4.174707/

There was heavy influence to use the Cat/Allison combo by AM General though Oshkosh stayed with the 8.3 and air to air cooled it among other things. Too many questions to ask there. I can only assume AM General had a good working relationship with both Cat and Allison since the M35A3 SLEP was in full swing already and they met requirements.

I want to know where the M939 with the Tatra suspension fits into all this. I presume very early Oshkosh 5TTR prototype.

 

[98G]

@Castle Bravo might have something to say on the topic

 

[silverstate55]

I like the wrap-around dash!

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I like the wrap-around dash!

It's different for sure. The 7 ton AMG Prototype I have has the exact same dash too. All the knobs are mechanical too so I suspect they use the same cabling as the M939 does for the air intake, defrost, etc.

 

[US6x4]

That first picture truck looks a bit like a KM-500.




What are your eventual plans for your truck? Full resto?

 

[HDN]

Thanks for bringing the 5TTR up! I saw the pic in the OP posted here awhile ago. It was a book scan, so your pic is much cleaner

I find it interesting that they'd rebuild M939 trucks instead of M809 trucks - maybe they wanted an existing air brake setup? It makes me want to find a beat-up M35A3, M818 and a M923 to hotrod into something like the pic in the OP. I really like the look but I might be biased

 

[BKubu]

@CUCVFAN has something similar, although it is a 2-1/2 ton truck. It looks like an M939 series truck. The suspension is much beefier than what is normally found on 2-1/2 ton trucks. It has a CAT engine (I don't recall the model) and a 4-speed Allison transmission. I mentioned this thread to him so maybe he will post some pics.

 

[HDN]

@CUCVFAN has something similar, although it is a 2-1/2 ton truck. It looks like an M939 series truck. The suspension is much beefier than what is normally found on 2-1/2 ton trucks. It has a CAT engine (I don't recall the model) and a 4-speed Allison transmission. I mentioned this thread to him so maybe he will post some pics.

I've seen one like you described for sale on Facebook awhile ago. That one also had a built-in 3-phase generator. At the time the seller had it in pieces and gave up on the restoration. It was an odd-looking truck!

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I've seen one like you described for sale on Facebook awhile ago. That one also had a built-in 3-phase generator. At the time the seller had it in pieces and gave up on the restoration. It was an odd-looking truck!

Correct. It was a 2.5 ton frame, M939 cab, Cat 3208 engine, and a generator between the engine and transmission. I don't know why I remember this stuff.. I know the military experimented with this idea again on a HMMWV that sold from GP some years back. Here's the link:

Something strange: M1123 HMMWV 30kw On Board Generator Equipped Prototype 6.5L 4-speed

I saw on Flebay someone is selling an M1123 with a 30kw gen mounted between the engine and transmission. Anyone have any info on this setup as I was unaware of this. Very interesting. Mark

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[HDN]

Correct. It was a 2.5 ton frame, M939 cab, Cat 3208 engine, and a generator between the engine and transmission. I don't know why I remember this stuff.. I know the military experimented with this idea again on a HMMWV that sold from GP some years back. Here's the link:

Something strange: M1123 HMMWV 30kw On Board Generator Equipped Prototype 6.5L 4-speed

I saw on Flebay someone is selling an M1123 with a 30kw gen mounted between the engine and transmission. Anyone have any info on this setup as I was unaware of this. Very interesting. Mark

www.steelsoldiers.com

I had no idea they did the generator thing with several vehicles. That's really neat!

Gosh this all makes me want to cobble together the nice bits of some beat up trucks into wacky stuff like this. A deuce with a M939 cab for example. That deuce looked like an oddly-short M923 - the height difference was noticeable I wish I saved pictures of the thing

 

[M813rc]

There was an M939 cargo truck similar to yours in Houston when I got my M813 back c.2005. I was interested in buying it, but they were not interested in selling.
I don't remember the details, I took some pictures of it, but can't find them right now, they may be in my old computer that slammed shut one day.
The only one I can find, it is peeking out around the nose of my 813.
I sure hope yours isn't the same one, because I remember that one being in really nice condition!

Cheers

 

[fuzzytoaster]

There was an M939 cargo truck similar to yours in Houston when I got my M813 back c.2005. I was interested in buying it, but they were not interested in selling.
I don't remember the details, I took some pictures of it, but can't find them right now, they may be in my old computer that slammed shut one day.
The only one I can find, it is peeking out around the nose of my 813.
I sure hope yours isn't the same one, because I remember that one being in really nice condition!

Cheers

I wish you had more photos because I know EXACTLY where that photo was taken. Unfortunately I believe this is the same truck due to proximity, people connections, unique headlight placement, and the 3 marker lights on the windshield. I have it on good authority that this was a later model and I happen to have a photos of truck #1 of the 5 TTR which looks like M923A2 but with the 7 ton air filter and exhaust. The hood is unchanged from the stock configuration. See below.