803a Problem

[Knuckles]

I finally had a chance to start going through my 803a today. When I opened it up, I found a couple wires disconnected from where it looked like a resistor or something was supposed to be. I'm looking through the manuals to try and figure it out, but I thought someone smarter than me may know what this is. Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[oliveone]

not sure where this pic is from but could take a pic off of my generator if you tell me where it is.

 

[Knuckles]

I found the part in the manual. It's a diode just like the one above the loose wires. It's a 1n5406 diode - easy enough to get. Unfortunately the terminal studs that it mounts to are missing and they aren't so easy to get. I'm sure I can come up with an alternative mounting method. I hope this is the only issue I'm up against. This has me worried about the generator - like there might be other lurking problems.......

 

[peapvp]

You can get these posts from Mouser. or DIGIKEY - They are called Terminal solder wirepost or something like that. Sent me a pm and I will sent you the part# and link to order.

 

[Knuckles]

Thanks to peapvp I was able to locate the terminal studs. I got the diode and wired it up temporarily. The electronics work but I became very worried because it would not turn over. I tried to turn it at the flywheel and nothing! I was crushed and couldn't imagine how an engine from 2009 with 1 hour on it could be seized up. With a little muscle I was able to get the engine to turn over. I worked it a little bit and soon enough I could get it to turn over with no problem. Now the only problem is it won't start. I can't get it to fire at all. More work to do I guess.

 

[Knuckles]

The more I look into this problem, the more I'm concerned this unit is suffering from a problem 802s and 803s can have. It's been covered here before, but the problem is with the A1 bridge rectifier circuit. During engine start up, voltages can peak at over 400 VAC across the quad winding circuit and can cause the diodes to short out wrecking the voltage regulator and stator. Since I had a missing diode, I'm wondering if this is what happened. I'm going to install the fuse that's the fix for this issue, but I'm hoping the stator or the voltage regulator aren't shot. Anyone know how I can test those parts?

 

[peapvp]

Your missing Diode is CR1, if I see this correctly in the picture. CR1 is in Series with the E-Stop S17, Aux Contact CB1 and the Dead Crank Switch S10. If you remove the Diode CR1 then the E-Stop circuit is going to be disabled.

 

[Knuckles]

I still can't get it to start. I'm getting white puffs of smoke when trying to start, but it won't fire at all. I'm frustrated....

 

[leedawg]

I still can't get it to start. I'm getting white puffs of smoke when trying to start, but it won't fire at all. I'm frustrated....

Will it fire on a little bit of ether. Be careful not to much so you dont knock out a rod or somethin.. I assume you have verified that the injector pump is indeed putting out fuel, sounds like it is since your getting white puffs of smoke.. Sounds like its just to cold to start might have to help it a long with some ether. We have an old D4 Cat that wont start unless ya give it a little shot. Sits there cranking forever on the pony engine just puffing white smoke out the stack, I just put a rag over the intake filter and do a tiny little burst of ether next to the rag and fires probably twice and starts right up then..


let us know what happens I also have an 803a that I have not started to go through yet just sitting behind my barn. One of these days ill get around to it..

Lee

 

[oliveone]

My 803 is running fine now want a 802. Need the 803 for full house use, but could use an 802 when only using 50% home. When need to run water pump, septic pump, AC and cooking in kitchen need more then 5 kw. The 5 kw would be fine for just TV, lights, heat, and computer. Over the summer need to build a generator shed

 

[Rapracing]

I still can't get it to start. I'm getting white puffs of smoke when trying to start, but it won't fire at all. I'm frustrated....

Are the glow plugs heating? How long are you heating them? Not sure of the temp there but you may need to heat them for 45-40 seconds.

 

[Knuckles]

The glow plugs are heating, fuels pumping, but no fire. I'll try again tomorrow and if I can't get it to start I'll take a short video so people can see what's happening

 

[oliveone]

How many hours of the generator? put some gas on a rag place rag in the area of air in take see if it will start. if no gas you can use white gas from camping stove. this is better then starting fluid!!! this will work for most diesel engines. Yes I have used this many times in real world when I need to get out of an area and my Government truck will not start. With the temps above 45-50f you should not need the glow plugs to much. my 803a starts at 5-10f with 15 sec of glow plugs. Could be a compression issue, bad fuel or are batteries low an not spinning engine up to speed.? if still cant get it to start you could try to pull injectors put some oil in each cylinder then try to start it. keep us posted good luck.

 

[Rapracing]

I'm not an expert by any means but sounds like it may be a compression issue or as stated above the batteries may not be turning it over fast enough.

You say there is fuel pumping
1. Can you hear fuel returning to the tank?
2. Did you bleed the lines?

Could also be the injectors are stuck or not working properly.

 

[Knuckles]

Still wont start

The generator is a 2009 with 1 hour on it. Fuel is flowing and returning to the tank. It has two brand new batteries in it. sounds like its almost firing up but it doesnt

 

[oliveone]

did you try gas on a rag by air intake? this changes the flash point of the diesel fuel. also sounded like a knock when engine was tuning over not sure. have you pulled out an injector to see if fuel is coming out. if it is getting fuel and will not start again check for fresh fuel or compression. if a diesel has good compression, is timed correctly, and getting good fuel to air mixture it should fire right up. this is saying all of the relays are working correctly.

good luck let us know.

Oliveone

 

[storeman]

I know nothing about the 802/803. Do they use same injectors as 002/003? Someone here will know the answer.

If not the same, are the fuel connections the same? If so, with pressure specs, I can adjust them. If not the same.I'd need a fuel line from a scrap unit to build a test capability.

Its kind of strange but most injectors I've seen are off required pressure settings by a good amount. That alone can account for what you are seeing.

Many folks on SS can attest to that.

Jerry

 

[ETN550]

Fresh engines with little wear and tight tolerances are good candidates for sticking when sitting. Same with their fuel systems. If there is white smoke then it is close to starting. How cold is the block and head when it is tryig to start. Get it up to room temp if possible. The rings could be stuck causing loss of compression. Rusty valve seats may also cause loss of compression initially. Get the batteries overcharged and warmed up. Keep cranking it, it should do something. I don't recommend ether because the inlet heaters can light it and cause an explosion. This unit does not ues glow plugs just inlet heaters. Further they have weak head gaskets and ether can over stress it. If you can get it running then the rings may seat. If there is a rust line atound the bores then after some running it may begin using oil. Keep your eye on the oil BTW I'm not a big fan of synthetic oil in diesels but a synthetic oil will greatly help cold cranking rpm.

Cold starting a diesel is all about building heat on compression. Heat the air, spin it fast and have good rings.

 

[ETN550]

802/803 and 002/003 completely different including injectors. I have specs for injectors if we need them. They use a small pencil nozzle.

I know nothing about the 802/803. Do they use same injectors as 002/003? Someone here will know the answer.

If not the same, are the fuel connections the same? If so, with pressure specs, I can adjust them. If not the same.I'd need a fuel line from a scrap unit to build a test capability.

Its kind of strange but most injectors I've seen are off required pressure settings by a good amount. That alone can account for what you are seeing.

Many folks on SS can attest to that.

Jerry

 

[ETN550]

The generator is a 2009 with 1 hour on it. Fuel is flowing and returning to the tank. It has two brand new batteries in it. sounds like its almost firing up but it doesnt

That does not sound good. Is there a bunch of ether in it at the time of that cranking? The thumping is only one of the cylinders. I would expect more white smoke. Did you crack the injector lines to see fuel up there? The pump that is running only circulates fuel and feeds the injection pumps.

Cranking speed is not bad. What's the temperature? To be attempting to start a stuck engine it would be best to get it warmed up first. Later, once it is sorted out it should start cold okay. Tarp it tightly with a small electric heater or two inside it for several hours to get the iron and batteries warmed up.

Pull the muffler and exhaust manifold and pull the inlet manifold. Pull the valve covers. then start it. Should be able to see the valves working check the lash, and tell which cylinder is thumping. This engine uses hudraulic lifters and they may be bled down, collapsed or stuck too. Again if started and warmed up the problem may go away.

If it gets fuel at the injectors and is warm and cannot be started then I would pull the head. Its not too big a deal but you will need about $75 in parts for resealing and new head gasket.

I hate to say it but low hour engines seem to have the most issues when they sit. Of course once fixed they are like brand new! Don't be afraid to invest a little in it if needed. Well worth it.