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A few questions about speed and gearing

deuce_09

Member
263
3
18
Location
san antonio/TX.
What makes a deuce so slow?(besides gear ratio) does the t-case have something to do with it? Tranny?what?

It will be a while before I get another deuce. But I do know I'd like to know how to get the tires spinning a bit faster. There aren't any higher gears than 6.17 I believe so axle gearing won't make much difference. Maybe A different t-case? Tranny?

Don't post smartass comments please. Just asking..
 

TexAndy

Active member
1,427
15
38
Location
Bee County, Texas
4Lo.com :: Final Gear Ratio, Crawl Ratio, Tire Size Calculators

a stock deuce:

40" tires
6.7221 differential ratio
Transfer case is 1 in high
.79 OD ratio. I think I read somewhere that some deuces have different OD ratios, but I think .79 is the most common.
Put in max RPM of 2500 and leave speed blank

And OD gearing makes a HUGE difference. There is a member who designed and is just coming to market with a .69 OD ratio upgrade for deuce transmissions.

Tire diameter seems to be the simplest solution, however, that affects available torque in all gears. substitute 46.7" for tires for 395/80r20 military tires to see top speed difference.

Personally, I'd love to get my deuce to where I could cruise at 60 and 2100 rpm. Which I think you could theoretically do with both the taller tires and a .69 OD ratio.... but I don't drive my deuce enough to justify the expense.
 
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jollyroger

Member
647
5
18
Location
Centennial, Colorado
Check Ouverson Engineering. They offer 6.73:1 and 4:90:1 gear sets.

Another way to make the truck go faster is more overdrive gear. There is a guy on here, M-35tom that offers a .69 overdrive gear for the tranny. His build thread is at the bottom of the modifications page right now.

Or bigger tires. 395/80R20's are as big as a stovk deuce can go. They are 46" tall. The truck will go 65 MPH road speed with those tires.

You can make the engine turn more RPM. A stock LDT motor is good but a 5 ton LDS motor is real good. 134 HP for the LDT and 200-210 for the LDS.

Or all of these things.

Or.........A jet engine with afterburner installed in the bed. I'm just sayin'.
 

deuce_09

Member
263
3
18
Location
san antonio/TX.
Jeez 4.90:1? That, an upgraded overdrive , bigger tires, and tweak the pump a little. I bet that will get the speed up a ton...I'd Have to take that bad boy to the strip..jk
 
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TexAndy

Active member
1,427
15
38
Location
Bee County, Texas
All three would bump the theoretical top speed up to 102 MPH.

But that doesn't mean the vehicle would ever reach that. At a certain point, the wheels would not produce enough torque to move the truck past a certain speed. Tweaking the IP would help that... but I highly doubt you'd ever get it to 102.

I'd be worried about other stuff on the vehicle failing from it moving that fast. Like the tires.
 

deuce_09

Member
263
3
18
Location
san antonio/TX.
I'm kinda more worried about the first and second gears. More acceleration, not so much top speed.I've been told a stock deuce drive terrain with 50+" tires didn't have enough gear in the mud or up hill unless your in first. So going with higher gears might effect the strength. How well it will turn them off road
 

deuce_09

Member
263
3
18
Location
san antonio/TX.
I was thinking profab t-case. 4.90:1 gears.Turn up pump.
But I might be able to get better milage out of it if I only swap gears out.
 
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LanceRobson

Well-known member
1,638
206
63
Location
Pinnacle, Stokes County, NC
I'll answer your first question and leave the rest to others. This is going to read a little like a sermon but please understand that it is not meant that way. It's just an attempt to air out "the rest of the story"

The reason your deuce goes the speed it does is because it was designed that way on purpose. The single circuit brakes of nearly all deuces ,except the M35A3 and similar, is not desigened to stop anything faster. Before you do anything to make the truck go faster you should think about the safety risks to yourself and everyone around you on the road. Even the dual circuit trucks have lousey brakes by modern standards. The only advantage they have is that they will retain some braking ability if a single brake line fails.

One of the principle characteristics of tactical trucks is the relatively high ground clearance and purposely short wheelbase for the overall length and load capacity of the truck. These, along with the height needed for the top loading axles and front drive shaft, allow the vehicle to clear higher obstacles than their civvy counterparts but result in the penalty of having a much higher center of gravity than a civvy truck of similar size and capacity.

The high CG means there is a dramatically increased risk of roll over accidents and higher speed simply aggravate that tendency. Additionally, the higher CG leads to more weight transfer to the outside wheels in a turn or on a curve than is the case with a civvy truck of similar size and weight. The resulting lower load on the wheels to the inside of the curve increases the chance of those brakes locking up when braking. This is especially true of a lightly loaded truck since the brakes are sized for a fully loaded truck. Higher speeds will aggravate that tendency, too, and these trucks are prone to brake locking even when stopping in a straight line at stock speeds.

These trucks were designed to off road operation and unimproved roads with some convoy operations at moderate speeds on improved roads. Before worrying about making the truck go faster the safe and responsible thing to do is to make sure the brake system is at 100% efficiency, change the tires to something with better braking performance and then to make a reasoned decision as to whether the desire to go faster is more important than the very real increased risks to yourself and others.

Time to put the soapbox away....

Lance
 

Towman2277

New member
507
0
0
Location
Saraland, Alabama
Not being a smart *** here, but bob it, and you'll be VERY impressed!! Install 395's, turn your IP pump up a little, and you'll be running around town wanting to race the other 4x4's LOL!!! [thumbzup]
 

deuce_09

Member
263
3
18
Location
san antonio/TX.
Not being a smart *** here, but bob it, and you'll be VERY impressed!! Install 395's, turn your IP pump up a little, and you'll be running around town wanting to race the other 4x4's LOL!!! [thumbzup]
1. Just so everyone gets knows what I'm doing with this deuce,Go to the full length 4x4 deuce thread. That is the deuce I want to build. 2. I'm going to be taking this thing off road alot and and I'm not worried about top speed.( I believe I said that already) I want to spin tires faster In first and second gear.It would be cool to drive it around but affording fuel for it's gonna suck.but I'm thinking with higher gears(axle), I will get a ittle better fuel milage. But would be even worse at spinning bigger tires.
 
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TexAndy

Active member
1,427
15
38
Location
Bee County, Texas
1. Just so everyone gets knows what I'm doing with this deuce,Go to the full length 4x4 deuce thread. That is the deuce I want to build. 2. I'm going to be taking this thing off road alot and and I'm not worried about top speed.( I bielive I said that already) I want to spin tires faster In first and second gear.It would be cool to drive it around but affording fuel for it's gonna suck.but I'm thinking with higher gears(axle), I will get a ittle better fuel milage.

If you have to turn the fuel up to make the engine produce enough torque at the wheels to accelerate at that higher gearing then you're probably not going to get better fuel mileage.

At least, I wouldn't think so.

If I were you, I'd ask around and see if anyone on the board has put those ouverson engineering 4.9 ratio differential gears on their deuce and see how much it degraded their acceleration. And how much they had to tweak their IP to come back to a stock deuce acceleration feel. And what temp they were measuring with their pyrometer.
 

deuce_09

Member
263
3
18
Location
san antonio/TX.
I guess the real question is.. What would yall recommend Doing to turn xzl's with authority through the mud? Going lower in gear?like a new t-case?profab maybe?
 

phil2968

Active member
2,591
18
38
Location
Lakeland, Florida
IWhat would yall recommend Doing to turn xzl's with authority through the mud?
Turning the xzl's just requires torque, turning with "authority" requires horespower! Swap in a 500 horsepower Cummins (our the high horsepower diesel of your choice) and turn em' with authority!

Speed cost money, how quick do you want to be?
 

deuce_09

Member
263
3
18
Location
san antonio/TX.
In another thread, there was a guy that lifted his deuce and put some tractor tires on it and left the rest completely untweaked and stock. And he said there's only enough gear to turn those tires in first. My guess, with the pump tweaked, I could turn some big tires with the stock drive terrain.
 
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