Allison TX 200-6 Question

[ALFA2]

I just had a question, if anyone knows what is the overall length of an Allison TX 200-6 ( from front edge of the bellhousing/TQ housing to rear edge of the output flange) ?

This transmission was used behind LDS 465-2 approximately 1969 +-
Also, if anyone has one, or knows where a used one, or rebuildable one can be found, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

ALFA2

 

[Stalwart]

Ah yes, the ones used in the M656,757 and 791 vehicles.

 

[ALFA2]

Thanks for responding Stalwart, do you have OAL measurements of this transmission, or any other information about this transmission that may be helpful?

Thanks Again.

ALFA2

 

[cranetruck]

About 30 inches long.
This was exclusively used on the 8x8 trucks listed by Stuart above and would be hard to find. The injection pump governor also had a cam to keep engine from overrevving during the shifting. The -2 engine and the -6 transmission work well together.
How do you intend to use it?

 

[ALFA2]

Thanks for your help cranetruck, I am interested in this transmission, to see if it will work in a M36a2, with an LDS 465. Also it is interesting to find out why they only used it for so few years, just too expensive, or did it have some unusual problems, that could not be fixed?

Please let me know.

Thanks again.

ALFA2

 

[m-35tom]

this would be a really bad choice for any deuce as it is not overdrive and only uses the top 4 speeds for on road use. very old, no parts available, etc. used in a lot of civilian trucks early 60's. a 3060 would be much better. (without the P it is not so long)

tom

 

[ALFA2]

Thanks for your info tom, I am not very familiar with the 3060, what trucks did it comer in, and is it an electronic control or a hydrolic transmission?

Also, does it have overdrive?

Thanks in advance for any help.

ALFA2

 

[cranetruck]

this would be a really bad choice for any deuce as it is not overdrive and only uses the top 4 speeds for on road use. very old, no parts available, etc. used in a lot of civilian trucks early 60's. a 3060 would be much better. (without the P it is not so long)

tom

According to the information I have, the civilian TX200 transmissions were adapted for the military and used in vehicles like the M113, however the -6 variant was designed for the M656/xm757/xm791 trucks alone, with whatever the modifications may have been.
These vehicles were not designed for the highway, so overdrive wasn't important. Max speed for these amphibious trucks is 50 mph (Tom is always looking for more top speed. ).

 

[ALFA2]

Thanks cranetruck, I looked at the specs of the 3060 Allison, and it is an electronically controlled trans, which I am trying to avoid, also it seems pretty expensive, as such things go, so unless I find something great, I am going to keep looking in the older hydraulic type automatics, as top speed is not primary here. May be with tire size it may go to 55-60, but load capacity and offroadability is more important here.

Thanks again.

ALFA2

 

[m-35tom]

try driving it around in 4th for a while to get an idea of speed. you will not find an automatic with o/d without going to the electronic allisons.

 

[wehring]

auto...

I have been doing a lot of research on computer operated Allisons behind mechanical motors. I was surprised to find that there were factory mechanical engine/computer tranny combinations offered. All the electronic Allisons need to operate properly is a TPS (throttle position sensor) and allison sells a TPS kit.

Feel free to call if you need any further info.

Justin Wehring
979 997 3112

 

[Nonotagain]

I have been doing a lot of research on computer operated Allisons behind mechanical motors. I was surprised to find that there were factory mechanical engine/computer tranny combinations offered. All the electronic Allisons need to operate properly is a TPS (throttle position sensor) and allison sells a TPS kit.

Feel free to call if you need any further info.

Justin Wehring
979 997 3112

Are you sure about that? I hope that you are right as this will save me about $1600.

I purchased a MD3070PT with plans of using it behind an International DT466E engine. Not sure if it's going in a M35 or a five ton.

The Allison tech manuals talk about having to program a ECM for the transmission as well as requiring an engine hook up (possibly the TPS?).

 

[m-35tom]

the 3070PT will not fit in a deuce, probably not even in a 5 ton and the front driveshaft is on the wrong side for a deuce anyway. you will find the ecu is $$$$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$ to program if you can even get someone interested in doing it.

 

[Nonotagain]

the 3070PT will not fit in a deuce, probably not even in a 5 ton and the front driveshaft is on the wrong side for a deuce anyway. you will find the ecu is $$$$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$ to program if you can even get someone interested in doing it.

Thanks for the answers Tom, but the M35 would have five ton under pinnings not the 2 1/2 ton axles.

Overall length of the transmission is 51" and since the transfer case is included in this length it should fit if my measurements are correct.

I have a local contact at J&T that does both Detroit and Allison. He quoted me $1600 for the ECM and the programming, though the programming would be done at his house.

I'm not rushing into anything, yet.

 

[ALFA2]

Thaks to all for repling, the info was helpful, and outside of M series, I have a working knowlege of old hydrolic automatic trans, HT 400, A 727, C6, AMX, TH 350 and have rebuilt several of each a long time ago, so that is why I am interested in the non computer controled trans, one I would have a chance to understand, and one that mormaly would not have strange and intermittent electrical problems which affect shifting, lockup and other basic functions. The reason I was interested in the TX 200-6 is because it was used in a heavy truck, with a LDS 465 combo, which is similar to what I have, and wanted to find out more about it, and take a look at the potential.

If someone has a picture of one complete, it would certainly help, and also what other types of trucks was this trans used in?

Thanks.

ALFA2

 

[tktsales]

I can send you a picture of a TX200. This was based on the commercial MT30/40 series transmissions. Not the best choice in my opinion but none the less stuff is available. The MD3060 / 3070PT can be used with a mechanical engine. There is a cable type TPS that attaches to the throttle lever and gets tied into the ECU with 3 wires. I can help with the programming. The ECUs are not cheap but used one are out there it just takes a little time to find them. If you have an ECU it can be recalibrated to allow use with the mechanical engine. The tough part is coming up with the right calibration. Allison generally will not give much assitance in this area. I am not sure is the MD3070 was ever installed with a mechanical engine but the MD3060 was commonly in the early 90s.

 

[ALFA2]

Thanks for the help Tktsales, I looked at the TX 200, and sizes and specifications for it, and based on the information I got, from many different sources, is that is it not the best auto to use in this application. I am still very weary of computer controlled transmissions, as I had some experience with GM and Ford, even under warranty, they could not figure it out, and an otherwise good vehicle was plagued by "computer related " issues. In a Deuce, especially for high altitude, reliability and simplicity is important. So the next one I am looking at is an old Allison MT643 ( R) ? weight capacity and bell housing should be compatible, and power rating is more than enough even for a LDS 465. If you know anything that may help in figuring out this matter please let me know.

Thanks.

ALFA2

 

[tktsales]

The MT643 is a decent transmission. Reliable, strong and a good shifting unit. The biggest problems with this trans is leaks from the converter and front seal. The MT643s are not all the same. There are many different valvebodies so you want to find one suitable for your engine RPM rating. Get the trans S/Ns and I can tell you what you have. As for flexplates and other adapters I am not sure if these are going to be available off the shelf? There are currently no listings for the LDS engine but I am sure at one point they were out there. A good machinist should be able to make the crankshaft pilot adapter and I think flexplate blanks are available you would just need to drill your crankshaft holes.