Another Glow Plug - Starting Issue Thread

[ssdvc]

It was 26 yesterday morning and I couldn't roll my girl over (my M1009 guys, my M1009). Since the temps have dropped lately, she has been reluctant to start without excessive cranking, but she started. Not yesterday. Once she was warmed up, it is first turn of the key and BAM, she is running. But it was just to cold for her yesterday morning.

Finally got her in the garage and I am in the process of pulling a few plugs. So my first question is (and just making sure):

1. If I do a resistance check on the plug itself, I should see something, correct. I just pulled my first one and she was dirty, really dirty. When I checked the resistance, I got nothing. I assume that means it's a bad plug, correct (couldn't find it in the TM)?

2. I got a FREE (the best kind) set of AC60's a few years back and plan to use them. She has some stock plugs in there now so I guess I will have to change out the electric connectors, but that should be it, correct.

3. How about putting some ANTI-SEIZE on the threads? I didn't see anything mentioned in the TM.

Again, I am not a master mechanic, so I may have more questions as the day progresses.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Finally got her in the garage ...

Garage? Real men work outside, on a gravel surface! (At least, that's what I keep telling myself, 'cause that's all I've got! )

1. If I do a resistance check on the plug itself, I should see something, correct. I just pulled my first one and she was dirty, really dirty. When I checked the resistance, I got nothing. I assume that means it's a bad plug, correct (couldn't find it in the TM)?

Correct. Open or shorted, it's bad.

2. I got a FREE (the best kind) set of AC60's a few years back and plan to use them. She has some stock plugs in there now so I guess I will have to change out the electric connectors, but that should be it, correct.

Correct. Use quality connectors! Nylon, not PVC. And it doesn't hurt to toss a dab of dielectric grease in there before you make the crimp. And use a good quality crimper! Ratcheting is best, or one of these. Not the stamped metal junk that comes in a kit at the auto parts store.

3. How about putting some ANTI-SEIZE on the threads? I didn't see anything mentioned in the TM.

Not a bad idea. Don't slop it all over, but it's a good thing.


By the way, here's a decent video on crimping. He covers something that most people ignore - lining up the seam correctly.

NOT doing this is why so may people think crimp connections are unreliable. Yes, use junk tools and connectors, and ignore the seam, and you'll get unreliable connections. He shows it here on a ring terminal, but it applies to ALL of them, butt connectors included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LBZR_XiEnk

 

[cucvrus]

It was 26 yesterday morning and I couldn't roll my girl over (my M1009 guys, my M1009). Since the temps have dropped lately, she has been reluctant to start without excessive cranking, but she started. Not yesterday. Once she was warmed up, it is first turn of the key and BAM, she is running. But it was just to cold for her yesterday morning.

Finally got her in the garage and I am in the process of pulling a few plugs. So my first question is (and just making sure):

1. If I do a resistance check on the plug itself, I should see something, correct. I just pulled my first one and she was dirty, really dirty. When I checked the resistance, I got nothing. I assume that means it's a bad plug, correct (couldn't find it in the TM)?

2. I got a FREE (the best kind) set of AC60's a few years back and plan to use them. She has some stock plugs in there now so I guess I will have to change out the electric connectors, but that should be it, correct.

3. How about putting some ANTI-SEIZE on the threads? I didn't see anything mentioned in the TM.

Again, I am not a master mechanic, so I may have more questions as the day progresses.

I could get that thing running in half and hour at 13*. At 26* 15 minutes is enough time. Sounds like the batteries may need load tested. And I still use A C Delco 13G glow plugs. Do as you wish. I know you are a great mechanic. You have been keeping a 33 year old vehicle running for a few years now. That in itself is a mechanical achievement. Happy Holidays. Anything you need ask.

 

[ssdvc]

Thanks Marcus and Rick. Pulled all the plugs. All but one came out willingly, one was a little swollen. But, with a gentle session of tugging and slight wiggling, she came out after a minute or so. 2 read around 24.4 ohms, 1 read around 9.5 and 5 were dead, no continuity at all. I think I found my starting issue.

Rick, I would have used the 13G's, but I have a full set of AC60's I got for nothing when I have the other 09 and never used them (I also have an Antenna Climber Glow Plug Card I will be installing at the same time). Seems a waste to let these parts sit. Besides, two of the connectors have bad plastic on them, so I am going to deviate a bit and go with the 60's.

Oh, and the first winter I had her she kicked over, easily, in minus 2, so She seems to be in good health otherwise.

Off to NAPA to get some decent connectors.

Thanks All.

 

[Matt5]

No reason to use 13g's non at all... 60g will limit swelling. Might as well keep using bias ply tires too.

Glow plugs are resistance checked... .02-.08? iirc (idk i suck at remembering numbers google it)

with the 60g they take a little longer to heat (as they are self limiting) I wait till *after* the light has gone out... on really cold days I wait till the plugs kick off and the second they do I crank... this extra waiting gives the slower heating plugs more time to warm up.

OP "roll my girl over" sounds like a no crank... when describing an issue please try to explain exactly what is going on.

A no crank is batteries, a no start with good crank speed is fuel or plugs... huge difference.

 

[Chaski]

I know this is a bit like the Dr. Seuss Butter Battle Book where one side likes their toast with the butter side up and the other likes their toast butter side down...

I have crimped somewhere over a hundred thousand Thomas & Betts brand terminals at work. While what the guy in the video seems adamant to crimp the opposite sided of the seam, Thomas & Betts actually indicates to line up the crimper indentor ON the seam of the terminal. That is the way I have done it for both of the electric utilities I have worked for, and it is rock solid. Now if you are using mystery parts store terminals, I'd agree with his technique, because I have seen cheap ones come apart at the seam.

Not sure it really matters, but if you are using T&B terminations don't be afraid to crimp them on the seam.


Below is a picture from the T&B ERG2002 instruction book.

 

[ssdvc]

Hey Marcus,

Thank you for that video about the crimping. For years I have been doing it haphazardly (and wrong) and have had several crimps fail. Now I know why. I even had the proper tool, but never used it, alway went to the cheap one. Doing it the right way was easy enough and makes for a more superior crimp. Very useful information in that vid !!!

Chaski,

I got some nylon ends from NAPA. They crimped great using the method in the video. I do have some heavier crimp ends in my stash and the appear to be different and a bit more robust then the normal ones I have laying around. They may be the ones you are speaking about for seam crimping.

Now I have to go and experiment with some different crimps. Time to learn.

Thanks !!

 

[Keith_J]

Don't forget the starter. Cranking RPM falls as they age. 27MT have bushing bearings, when they get sloppy, they drag. Brushes wear, limiting current. Spinning a diesel is the key to starting. Starters degrade imperceptibly. Keep them spinning.

 

[ssdvc]

As a final update, I did all the glow plugs and the GP card (replaced with one from Antenna Climber). Cleaned up a few things and did some other maintenance. Truck has been sitting for 3 days and although it was 45 in my garage (kinda warm), she turned over within a second of turning the key and ran very well.

All is good and thanks for all the tidbits of advice!!

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I know this is a bit like the Dr. Seuss Butter Battle Book where one side likes their toast with the butter side up and the other likes their toast butter side down...

I have crimped somewhere over a hundred thousand Thomas & Betts brand terminals at work. While what the guy in the video seems adamant to crimp the opposite sided of the seam, Thomas & Betts actually indicates to line up the crimper indentor ON the seam of the terminal. That is the way I have done it for both of the electric utilities I have worked for, and it is rock solid. Now if you are using mystery parts store terminals, I'd agree with his technique, because I have seen cheap ones come apart at the seam.

Not sure it really matters, but if you are using T&B terminations don't be afraid to crimp them on the seam.


Below is a picture from the T&B ERG2002 instruction book.

Good post.

ON the seam or OPPOSITE the seam will give good results. Where you do NOT want to be is...... random. "Just shove it in a crimp away." Nope.

Line it up directly ON or OPPOSITE and you'll be good.

And, yes, cheapo connectors are asking for trouble no matter what you do!

 

[moehos]

Hi SSDVC,

I'm a little surprised that you didn't have trouble starting your rig at -2F, in my climate, many of the old diesels wont start unless they have their block and oil pan heaters plugged in below about 10F. The new diesels are much better. Below about 20F, if my M1028 isnt plugged in, it will fire initially but then sputter out and die, it will take several more tries and some playing with the throttle to get it to start and keep running again. I've got new plugs, controller and change my fuel filter annually as well as religiously running seasonal fuel additives.

I can't remember who said it to me or where I read it, but a member had suggested removing or changing the pickup sock in the tank, something that I'm meaning to do as soon as I get my current garage project finished. Diesel fuel, depending on your blend can start gelling Above 32F, I've been wondering if I have some kind of contamination thats collected in my tank over the last 30 years and is strangling my fuel pickup, which could be exacerbated at colder temps... might be worth considering if you continue to have issues.

Also, are you running a fuel winterizing additive? There are a number of good brands that are available at major autoparts stores. Howes is a local favorite up here, I haven't used it because it separates fuel and water, and in theory, you end up with a layer of water in your tank, as opposed to an emulsificant which combines with the water and allows it to pass through the fuel system, and assuming you maintain your filter I prefer that route if you don't think you have a huge amount of water in the tank. I run Power Service brand additives for winterizing fuel and a Schaffers brand during the summer, I stopped running the Schaffers winter additive because it would actually Gel below 0F if it wasnt mixed with fuel, which didn't make it particularly convenient for adding to the tank when fueling...

Best of luck!!!

 

[ssdvc]

Moehos,

Yes, I'll run Diesel Clean winter blend for the next few months.

As for cold starting, this is my second M1009 and, when running properly, I have not had any starting issues. Now, when the temps get down to 20 or below, she doesn't fire up like a gas engine. It will take a few seconds of cranking her over before she catches, but I don't have any issues after that.

I have discovered over the years that these trucks are fairly robust and designed to take some reason weather extremes if they are properly maintained. The only times I have every had issues is when something was wrong, either with fuel delivery (leaking fuel filter causing fuel to drain back to the take, or a faulty/failing IP on my last 09, etc) or, in this case, bad glow plugs. I'm not a trained mechanic, but I can usually take something part and put it back together (given enough time) with only a few extra parts laying around. I am learning that care and feeding is required on an ongoing basis with my 09 and if you take your time, it's not hard. I have to drop my tank, as I lost my fuel gauge a while back and it is annoying the heck out of me. Everything checks out, so I think it is the sending unit. When I drop the tank and pull the sending unit I will also change the sock too. Heck, if I am able, I may even clean out the tank, just because (hey, does anyone know if the 31 gallon replacement tank will fit in my 09?).

One other thing. I know this will sound weird, but if you listen carefully to your truck she will tell you when there is something going wrong. Sounds change, the feel of the truck changes and, for the most part, it is long before something totally becomes a failure in the system.

Plus, Alaska is WWAAYYYYYYYY colder than Connecticut is. If I lived any farther North of here, I would have 2 freeze plug block heaters and and keep the truck on a timer in the winter time.

 

[moehos]

Moehos,
One other thing. I know this will sound weird, but if you listen carefully to your truck she will tell you when there is something going wrong. Sounds change, the feel of the truck changes and, for the most part, it is long before something totally becomes a failure in the system.
Plus, Alaska is WWAAYYYYYYYY colder than Connecticut is. If I lived any farther North of here, I would have 2 freeze plug block heaters and and keep the truck on a timer in the winter time.

Yep, just offering some thoughts while thinking about my own issues since I have a fair amount of experience wrenching in a cold climate.

I suspect my issue related to the pickup sock and possible need of new injectors.

Honestly I'd say our winter average is around 0F these days, weathers been changing up here, we only had maybe three whole weeks of -30F last winter and the rest bounced between -10 to +30F. So far this year it hasnt gotten below -5F, but otherwise its been between 0 and 20F which is about perfect if you ask me.

 

[moehos]

I realize I never followed up on this, and wanted to share in case someone else is having these issues.

I was having issues with my old CUCV starting below about 0F without excessive cranking.

This was with a block and oil pan heater and Hillbilly wizards upgraded glow plug controller and a 24v battery maintainer.

Turned out one of my two batteries was underperforming, once I had two new batteries it never failed to start again. Pretty stupid because anyone with a load tester could have figured that out, but any temperature above zero and it never had any other indicators that one of the batteries wasn't working.

Sold the truck back in 2019 unfortunately, couldn't fit the whole family in it. Miss it dearly.