Any Pointers for Finding a GOOD Engine?

[abh3]

Swapped in the replacement $800 engine and it has a bad bottom end... What a great way to spend a few days! The guy I bought it from said it had a bad turbo but ran fine. When I changed the oil there was only about two gallons in it. Hmmmmm... I bet there is a connection there now that I think about it. Now I'm looking again.

The first bad one was a White, now this is a bad Hercules, are some makes to be avoided?

Another seller says he has good non-turbo engines and to just bolt the turbo on and go, is this going to be a problem?

Should I:
Demand the seller pull the pan and check out the bottom end?
Avoid ANY engine with issues, like the above mentioned turbo?
Only buy one I actually hear run?
Just give up and push this one into the weeds?

If anyone could share their experience and insight it would be appreciated!

 

[clinto]

OK, to answer the "should I" questions:

Yes, I would demand the seller pull the pan and I would pull at least 2 rod caps and inspect the bearings. Might not be a bad idea to plastiguage them as well.

I would also pull a main cap, for the same reasons.

Of course, if you can hear one running that would be preferable, but there's no guarantee it will last. All engines sound good until they fail.......... And with a used (i.e. unknown), you don't know when you'll reach that point.

I wouldn't push it into the weeds, they are too much fun to drive!

I have put some thought into this and I think the best course of action is to get a "core" engine and rebuild it. The parts are not terribly expensive (I could build 3 multifuels for what I spent on my last Mopar 440). There is a good write-up on the Vermont Military Club's website:

http://www.angelfire.com/vt2/gmmvc/rebuild.html

I am going to find a core multifuel for mine and keep it pickled so if mine blows up, I have a backup. I will then rebuild it. That way, I know what's in it before I do all that work swapping it out just to find another wounded engine.

Sorry to hear of your predicament, that's a lot of work just to end up in the same place.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Considering your pain and suffering from the last one, I would need to hear it run. I traded for one for the crane and before I installed it, I ground hopped it right on the trailer. magnus has the video. If you do buy another one without hearing it run, I would ground hop it before wasting my time installing it. Might I ask where you bought it from? You can add the turbo to the NA motor but the timing needs adjustment. Side note, My tractor was originally NA and Winslow added a turbo when Bruce Kubu bought it. I stopped off and spoke with Winslow in 2005 and he said he never adjusted the timing. It runs like a champ.

 

[DDoyle]

I'd definately hear it run - and evidently I alone on this forum have no aversion to the naturally aspirated LD-465 - I wouldn't even consider adding the turbo.

Best,
David

 

[abh3]

Recovery4x4, I bought this engine from a guy named Scott L., I believe somewhere up in NC or VA, for $850 delivered here while he was on vacation headed somewhere. I've emailed him but haven't heard anything back yet, I sure hope we can work something out, he seemed like a nice person who knew his Duece stuff...

This really brings to mind the old adage 'Trust but verify'... I thought about cranking it before putting it in but, hey, the guy had run it, etc. When I changed the oil post-install/pre-starting and found not much oil and a litttle metal (aluminum maybe) in the front sump plug I began to get nervous but it was too late then! I spun it for some time before starting so it wasn't 'dry' on startup so I don't think that is an issue... I tried it again today to see if the Multifuel Fairies had come in the night and fixed it but it still sounds like a spun bearing plus the blowby and miss suggests one piston is compriomised.

The drawback of just running one on the ground is that unmuffled engines tend to be loud so the LDT must be absolutely deafening ! It would be easy to miss something...

Maybe I just need to trade for the LD and do it all over again, my back is feeling better . This other man will trade an LD for my firetruck with a Cummins V555 and 10 speed... A whole truck for an engine But at least he has a test bench he runs them on to check them out!

 

[jwaller]

I've got one I just picked up from drms. I'd be willing to work with you on test running it if you would like. it's complete but I'd like to sell it as a long block without accessories. it is a turbo motor.

 

[Recovry4x4]

There is a friend of mine in Live Oak that has some engines. If you end up needing something, I'll scare up contact info for him.

 

[rmgill]

seems like you could take the one that you took out and rebuild it no?

 

[devilman96]

Just on principle.. I would go after Scott... The ideal of selling a engine with metal in the pan would infuriate me.

Ditto on what Kenny just said (I was thinking the same reading through the thread)... Get with Matt in Live Oak, FL and get one from him. You can prolly make some of your money back on parts selling the IP pumps and what not... Matt Might even take some of it in trade from you.

Also... Where ever your next engine comes from I would consider doing 2 things... If you have the cash re-bearing the bottom end... MF's over 30K are known for rod slinging due to bearing falure... Its the high quality oil filtration system!

Second would be if your not so sure about doing the bearings ($, experience, etc.) AT LEAST pull a oil sample and send it in for analysis... It will give you a good indication of the wear factor on the engine. Napa PN 4077 $14-20 pending your stores mark up.

 

[cranetruck]

... MF's over 30K are known for rod slinging due to bearing falure...

Hey Mike, how does this particular failure manifest itself, noise, performance etc?
Thanks

 

[red devils dude]

if I were you I'd pull the pan and check the bearings before I went looking for another motor.

 

[abh3]

Oh gosh, the post I tried to put up earlier was eaten by my computer... Thanks for all the input thus far!

Recovery4x4 and Jwaller, your leads may be the way to go though I'm a little light here in the midst of the holiday season, I'm sure you know the drill.

Devilman96, I know what you mean, I am disappointed but I hope I can work sometihing out with the seller, he seemed like a real nice guy who knew his Duece stuff, etc, I just need to talk to him... The worst part is the time, I had a 'home alone' window to do some of this kind of thing that has now run out, back to work and all Tuesday, kids at home, single parenting, etc., it is wall to wall. Also, the bearing replacement might be the best bet for the next one, I've done inframes and such before...

I think the next one will have to run on the ground (with a muffler and for some time with at least an oil pressure gauge) or at least pull the pan and look see... I've got the stuff, just too lazy to do it with this last engine, bad on me !!

Rmgill, what scares me about fixing the original engine is the fact that it ran without oil pressure for some time, that's how the truck got to GL I guess... Has anyone out there 'patched one up' with a crank and some bearings? The block looks OK where the main spun but there is alot of pressure when these things happen, I suppose some miking would tell the tale of the block... But then there is the hard surface on cam, lifters, many moving parts, etc to consider, I'd do it if it could be done cheap enough, it ran great except for the SQUAWK, SQUAWK... every time you pull an engine the process gets quicker, right? I did this one by myself (except for some help with the loader setting it in) in about 20 hours, including swapping ALL accessories, new clutch/resurfaced flywheel, etc. Now I'll KNOW which wrench or socket to pick up !

Thanks for the input again!

 

[Recovry4x4]

Lack of oil does bad things to the camshaft too.

 

[abh3]

FOLLOWUP ON BAD BOTTOM END

Finally found the time to get the pan off and see what is going on... The oil pump idler gear shaft has SHEARED, which, of course, means problems in the oiling department. Has anyone seen this failure before? The other picture tells the resulting story of the main bearings...

On a better note, the seller and I are discussing the best way to handle the situation, he is very reasonable, i.e. it is a bad engine but there are still good parts to be of service, etc and I think we can work things out. I believe that it had oil pressure when he ran it, though it may have in the past been run low on oil or the gear was not engaging from time to time enough to kill the bottom end, hence the bearing damage and bad turbo. Maybe in the pulling, transport and install the gear finally had had enough and wound up in the pan...

The crank is not blued but is hurt, with bearing material 'rubbed' into it at one journal, too far gone to try a patch job with new inserts IMHO... Maybe turn the crank, etc. as no bearing spun, but there may be other damage to consider. Has anyone been here before? I've seen all kinds of butchery done on tractor engines, some of which actually worked for a while! I've got more pics if anyone cares to see them. I haven't looked at any rod bearings, which seems to be a weak point on these engines, but i think I know what I'll find...

What a deal, I've had a time with Multifuel botton ends! I'm looking hard at a jam-up Dodge 440 and 727 combo sitting in my old hot-rod truck behind the barn, though that issue is best left for another section of this great forum...

Thanks for all the attention!

 

[rdixiemiller]

RE: FOLLOWUP ON BAD BOTTOM END

If you spun a main bearing in your first engine, the block will need to be line bored. The bearings you show in the picture look typical of an engine run with no oil pressure. I would see if an automotive machine shop can mike and polish the crank. It may be OK with a set of .001 under bearings. Otherwise, crank kit time. I would look at the camshaft, no oil is really hard on cam lobes and lifters. Just depends on how long it was run with no oil pressure. You will also need an oil pump......
See if the seller will swap engines with you. If he represented it as a good running engine, he should either refund your money or replace the engine.
Just my $.02

 

[OPCOM]

RE: FOLLOWUP ON BAD BOTTOM END

Ouch! Sorry to have thing turn out that way. Hope it works out OK between you and the seller. I wouldn't believe he'd known about that and still sold the engine as good. They make so much noise, it could be easy to overlook various noises is only test running.

 

[doghead]

RE: FOLLOWUP ON BAD BOTTOM END

And, Thanks for sharing and showing us what you found. Please keep us informed on how you progress from here.