Availability of TQG's

[Guyfang]

Just a little info on the upcoming availability of TQG generator sets in the near future. I spoke with someone in the know who told me that there are still lots of TQG gen sets in both the Regular Army and Reserve. Units do not want to give them up, unless ordered. And I can confirm that when I go on post. They are everywhere.

Next note is MEL. Maintenance Expenditure Limits on gen sets. The Military sets a limit on how much money can be spent on repairing equipment. The TQG's are supposed to be on the way out the door. The Military has reset the MEL on the TQG. The max that can be spent on the TQG is 45% of the new replacement cost of the set. The MEL is going to go lower. So, that means you can not even replace an engine. Any major, or for that matter, minor damage, can be reason to turn in the gen set to the Military Disposal System. So in the coming next few years, you are going to see gen sets with more damage and missing parts.

Repair parts are being drawn down in the supply system. When some parts are no longer available through the supply system, there will be no new parts purchased. If a unit needs a part, and it is no longer available in the supply system, the parts will be cannibalized from other sets in the same Non-Op condition. If that is not possible, or the waiting time for a part to be "found" is too long, that gen set will be turned in for disposal. So you might also see gen sets for sale, that have been cannibalized, and or, sets that have faults on it due to being loaded up with bad parts needed to bring 2,3,4,5 or more other sets to a Mission Capable condition. Normally a unit is required to make equipment as "whole" as possible, when turning it in. So let the buyer beware.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Already seeing it. Thank you for the info Guy.

 

[Coug]

I'm sure there will continue to be some in service for many years.

My unit in Korea still had some MEP-002 generators, and this was in 2005-2009, so long past when they should have been obsoleted.

Unfortunately around here they go for 2-3 times the price they were just a couple years ago. I picked up my 2010 MEP-802A for about $1200 2.5 years ago with 11 hours on it and some damage to the exterior. Now I can't seem to find parts units for that, and all the auction gens are at least twice that amount with thousands of hours on them. Probably doesn't help that I see them posted in this area by a guy on craigslist for $6-8k.

 

[Light in the Dark]

The at auction price is easily 2-3x what it was, so after the auction house takes their cut (which is 15% now, not 10%) and astronomical freight figures... that large sum isn't as gravy as one might think.

What do you need for parts for your machine?

 

[Coug]

The at auction price is easily 2-3x what it was, so after the auction house takes their cut (which is 15% now, not 10%) and astronomical freight figures... that large sum isn't as gravy as one might think.

What do you need for parts for your machine?

No parts needed yet luckily. Just been keeping my eyes open and even the non running gens that are obviously missing stuff are still going for more than I would expect.

 

[pclausen]

I'd be curious to know how many were made (802 and 803 models), how many are still in use, and how many were sold at auction.

 

[Guyfang]

Do not forget, a 400 hertz machine is a fine parts machine, if the price is right.

 

[cbisson]

Already seeing it. Thank you for the info Guy.

I'm glad I got in when I did, thanks to LITD. Gotta keep adding to the spare parts stash. I think some of the electronic components that KloppK produces are a wise investment. They're better than OE and without them you're sunk.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Do not forget, a 400 hertz machine is a fine parts machine, if the price is right.

The range Ive seen on 813s is about 1600-4k over the last six months.

 

[Ray70]

Wow! That's more than a good running low hour 803 on a trailer was just a few years ago! Oh how times they are-a-changin'.....

 

[pclausen]

I was watching the GP auction today and there were a few decent deals in PA and GA, which are within driving distance for me in VA.

802A	884 hours	not running	$1,510
803A on trailer	5,844 hours	running and making power	$1,900
803A on trailer	9,302 hours	turns over, top missing	$1,200
803A on trailer	5,082 hours	start switch missing	$1,200
1040	271 hours	runs but displays Governor fault	$6,150
803A on trailer	1,550 hours	runs	$5,100
803A	364 hours	runs	$5,505
803A on trailer	2 hours	runs	$6,700
803A	1,921 hours	runs	$3,250

So some of the early sets went for decent prices, but as the day went on, the prices got pretty silly.

 

[Abrant23]

I was watching the GP auction today and there were a few decent deals in PA and GA, which are within driving distance for me in VA.

802A	884 hours	not running	$1,510
803A on trailer	5,844 hours	running and making power	$1,900
803A on trailer	9,302 hours	turns over, top missing	$1,200
803A on trailer	5,082 hours	start switch missing	$1,200
1040	271 hours	runs but displays Governor fault	$6,150
803A on trailer	1,550 hours	runs	$5,100
803A	364 hours	runs	$5,505
803A on trailer	2 hours	runs	$6,700
803A	1,921 hours	runs	$3,250

So some of the early sets went for decent prices, but as the day went on, the prices got pretty silly.

That 1030 went for over 6100. That's crazy money.

 

[DieselAddict]

That 1030 went for over 6100. That's crazy money.

I've not bought a generator from the auctions in years. Its hard to buy one to resell and give someone a decent price. I can buy a brand new diesel generator with a warranty for what I see some of them going for at auction.

 

[jwinner]

Yeah some of those prices aren’t bad, but one of the 1040s went for $11,000. And they aren’t that great, one had a fault at 270hours up for auction. I bought a commercial 10kw 3600rpm water cooled diesel for about $2500 recently but rolled the dice on limited info. I keep looking at the 803s and 1040s but I can’t justify spending that much when I don’t really need it. If no one buys them when they are listed on places like eBay for those inflated prices, maybe people will stop bidding so high. Ill keep watching!

 

[pclausen]

Yep those prices are pretty crazy. I can buy a brand new Kubota 15kW for around $8k and a 21kW for about $9.4k.

I managed to pick up a Kubota 20kW for around $4,000 a few years ago. This one:



I neglected it for too long and during a recent extended power outage, it died on me:



I got it going again, but still need to adjust the valves to make sure they are within specs, but otherwise it seems happy again after changing the oil pan gasket and doing a complete fluid change and adjusting the voltage regulator down to around 240V (was around 250V). When I first got it, it was 100% manual. I added a DSE 7410 MKII controller to fully automate it, including being able to control it and monitor all parameters from a computer. That DSE model has an Ethernet port. So I was at around $5k all in for a turbo charged 20kW set.

One day I still need to figure out a fan guard of some sort. It does have a reverse fan (it blows through the radiator), so it is full functional without a guard, but you could loose a finger if not paying attention.

But yeah, unless you are dead set on a military set, there are plenty of good deals to be had on commercial 1,800 rpm sets that are single phase.

 

[Abrant23]

Yep those prices are pretty crazy. I can buy a brand new Kubota 15kW for around $8k and a 21kW for about $9.4k.

But with taxes and such you'd be in it for quite a bit more than that. Then you have to add a fuel tank, enclosure, etc to be comparable to a TQG.

I agree that the auction prices are out of control, but so are the prices on "off the shelf" commercial sets.

 

[helomedic1171]

I got my 003a for $500 after fees and such. It was a basket case that had been picked off for parts just as you described. I'm not surprised at all by this news; it's the cycle of life for military hardware.

There's no way I could do that now, and with the prices on the auction sites, it's not even worth it. I got lucky and bought my 701 from another guy I know for $800, more than I paid for my 003a.

It's untenable, but I don't know when it will stop.

 

[NATCAD]

what would civ options be for 12kw or smaller 120/240 commercial diesel generator? Interested in options people have direct experience with. Around here people sure love to pay to have propane or nat gas briggs and stratton whole home generators installed. As you all know, these are standby and not prime power, and you can't store enough LP to make a reasonable planning man think it is a good idea.

 

[DieselAddict]

Assuming you can find one in stock:

Compact Power 12 kW Diesel Generator - Hardy Diesel

Perkins 12kW Compact Power (CP) diesel generators are designed for quiet operation in space contrained applications. Sound attenuated enclosure.

hardydiesel.com

 

[Coug]

what would civ options be for 12kw or smaller 120/240 commercial diesel generator? Interested in options people have direct experience with. Around here people sure love to pay to have propane or nat gas briggs and stratton whole home generators installed. As you all know, these are standby and not prime power, and you can't store enough LP to make a reasonable planning man think it is a good idea.

It all depends on what exactly it is you are trying to plan for, and what your expected needs are.

You burn about 1 gallon of propane for every 6-7kw of electricity produced in a 3600 rpm engine. I can run my entire house on an average of 6kw, so if I got a 500 gallon tank I'd be looking at 300 hours of runtime if running constantly, or about 2 weeks. If I limit it to only when I'm awake, that expends by another week. If I'm very conservative and only fire up the generator when I really need it, then that could be reduced to a couple hours a day to take care off pumping water, laundry, cooking, etc, you might get several months of use before you're out of fuel.

If you want to act like nothing has changed and don't restrict your activities to deal with the new reality, you could burn though that same 500 gallon tank (which in reality is about 300 gallons usable before needing refilled) in less than a week. Electric heat turned up, hot water heater and long hot showers, running the hot tub, steam sauna, and other luxuries.

As for their longevity, I've seen multiple Generac units with thousands of hours on them. 4500 hours on one particular off grid unit and still going strong, 3400 hours on another but burning oil. More of these generators die from age/corrosion than they do from wearing out.

I see plenty of people that have smaller standby generators to just cover critical circuits in their house. Pair that with a 100 gallon fuel tank, and they make it through the normal outages of a few hours to a couple days.

I know of people with 1000 gallon propane tanks that they bought, had installed, but then haven't touched since. Because it's 100% sealed and no oxygen, propane doesn't go bad. In 20-30 years, long after any gasoline of diesel has turned to sludge or evaporated, that propane will still be just as good to use as it was the day the tank was filled.


Are they good for prime power? No, they aren't. The expectation isn't for society to collapse and have no other power source or more fuel available. Unless you have a farm and store hundreds of gallons of diesel fuel, then if everything goes to crap it isn't likely all the fuel stations will be filled up with diesel to refill your gen either.


My general thoughts are, if you're living off grid, then prime power is needed. If you are just looking for a backup power source for a few days to possibly a few weeks, then a propane generator will work just fine as long as you plan ahead.