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axle ratio?

67_Gladiator

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Spokane Valley, WA
sorry if this has been posted before, been lurking and reading various threads but couldn't find what i was looking for. Can the axle ratios be changed in the top loader axles? for better top speed for highway travel? i see some guys posting about cruising at 70 no problem when i read stock top speed is about 55? any insight? I'm looking into getting one of these beasts and swapping in a cummins 5.9
 

92RT-TT

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As I'm sure someone will tell you... which it looks like its me this time, before modifying your deuce to go 70, make sure it can stop from 70 mph safely ie make sure your brakes are adequate
 

67_Gladiator

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Spokane Valley, WA
I did read about that and brakes will be upgraded. im not wanting to do 70, was just an example, but i would like to do 60-62 as that is the speed of the freeways and highways here with a few exceptions on certain stretches of highway. Not looking for a hot rod but i would like to keep up with the flow of traffic. I wonder iv the od ratio of an NV4500 and slightly larger tires would get me to 60?
 

Unforgiven

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The easiest way to improve axle ratio is by tire size. Tire diameter is linearly proportional to road speed for a fixed RPM.

If you double the tire size, you'll double the speed for that RPM. Or, conversely, you'll only need 1/2 the RPM's for the same linear speed down the highway.

Now, of course, doubling the tire size is not practical. But if you take the stock 39" tire and add say 1/3 to that you would have 39 + 13 = 52". So a 52" tire with the stock differential gearing will increase your maximum speed by 1/3. Let's say the maximum stock speed is 54 mph on 39" tires. Then with 52" tires that would be 54 + 18 = 72 mph.

The trade off is torque & brakes. larger tires have more rotational inertia plus a larger radius to the contact patch on the ground. They are therefore harder to start/stop. And kinetic energy goes as speed squared. So going faster by 1/3 is going to make the K.E. ~ (4/3 V)^2 = 16/9 V^2 = 1.78 times the original kinetic energy.

Therefore, going 72 mph will take, at minimum, 78% more braking energy than at 54 mph. Something has to give. What gives? Distance. It will take MUCH further to stop the same truck, not even including the larger rotational inertia of the tires. (78% further at maximum braking efficiency).

That's why it's deceptive to say "Oh, 55 to 70 isn't that big of a deal." Well, yes it is. It might only be 15 mph difference, but it makes a 78% difference in kinetic energy that the brakes must dissipate.

So either way you go, with larger tires or different gears in the differentials, you will be over-driving the brakes if you are pushing 70 mph.

A "modest" tire-size change is probably the easiest way to improve your road speed. Somewhere in the middle like 395's or 14R20's should be just about right.

The 4.90 gear sets being sold are for Jeeps & other lightweight 4x4's running Rockwell axles. These lighter vehicles are easier for upgrading brakes. They will work in the Deuce but why?

Don't reinvent the wheel. There's a reason why semi trucks & large buses have engine brakes, exhaust brakes, and transmission retarders. The Deuce will never fly down the road like a Greyhound bus.
 

67_Gladiator

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Spokane Valley, WA
I stated in my second post i was not wanting to go to 70, it was an example of what other people had achieved and i was curious of their methods to get there. I don't need anything more than 60. thats as fast as the freeways here allow anyway. it will probably rarely see the highway anyhow, nothing more than the short distances from my house to the ORV park or one of my other wheeling spots. I understand speed and old trucks, i stretched the legs on my 67 jeep Gladiator once and it was butt clenching for sure to say the least. and it only weighs 5600 at most
 

Flyingvan911

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You can put on bigger tires, change engines, gear ratios, etc. There are quite a few threads on different issues. Just use the search box on the left side of the screen. The key is to do your homework.
 

hoop

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67_
Reading your last post, I would leave it like it is. Looks like she would see a lot more trail time than road time.
I like the low gearing and torque for the trails and 50 is not really that slow when you get used to it. I use mine as a daily fun mobile and rarely need to go over 50 even though I do 1/3 of my miles on the Highway.
If you feel you must change something to get the speed, I would have two sets of tires and keep the 9x20 for the trails.
 
if i could afford it id change the axle ratio to 4.9 . you would still have lots of power in low range for trails and you would get better fuel milage on the road . id bet 75 percent( maybe more )of the deuses out there dont get much of a load on a regular basis so dont realy need the lower ratio .. im sure i read that 1500 rpm is the most tourqe for the multi , im not sure how fast that would be with regular tires but i bet it would be close to 45/50, for me thats good enough.
 

Unforgiven

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if i could afford it id change the axle ratio to 4.9 . you would still have lots of power in low range for trails and you would get better fuel milage on the road . id bet 75 percent( maybe more )of the deuses out there dont get much of a load on a regular basis so dont realy need the lower ratio .. im sure i read that 1500 rpm is the most tourqe for the multi , im not sure how fast that would be with regular tires but i bet it would be close to 45/50, for me thats good enough.

It doesn't matter how you get the overall ratio. Whether it's via differential gears, transmission overdrive, or tires. The only thing lower differential ratios like 4.90 will do is slightly reduce heating in the differential. I doubt you would see an appreciable savings in fuel due to this loss.

1500 rpm's is really borderline lugging the engine. I've found it purrs happily at about 2200-2500 rpm's. But, to show you what your 4.90's at 1500 rpm with stock tires would give you:

(6.72 - 4.90)/6.72 = about a 27% decrease in rpm for a given road speed.

i.e. 0.73X = 1500 means X=2055 rpm if it still had 6.72 gears.

2055 rpm stock tires/gears works out to about 44-45 mph in 5th gear.

So, 1500 rpm's with 4.90 gearing would get you somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 mph.

I would think a top speed of 55-60 mph would be just about right for the truck. You can easily get this by simply bumping the tires up to 42-46". That would only increase the braking distance by about 20% at 60 mph.

It's not linear, but to make life simple for "ballpark" figures you can add about 25% increase in braking distance for each 5 mph increase over 55. 60 mph needs to dissipate 25% more energy. 65 mph needs to dissipate 50% more energy. 70 mph needs to dissipate 75% more energy, etc. It's a crude, rough estimate. But it's easy to remember.

4.90 regearing is for daily-driven Jeeps running Rockwell axles. If they weren't over a grand for each axle it would be an interesting experiment. Personally, I'd rather spend a grand per axle on ARB lockers & use larger tires for better road speed.
 

doghead

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It amazes me how many times these same questions are asked and how many times they get the same answers.


67, since you have been a member here(2 days) how many searches have you done? How many threads have you read?
 

Maverick1701

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As I'm sure someone will tell you... which it looks like its me this time, before modifying your deuce to go 70, make sure it can stop from 70 mph safely ie make sure your brakes are adequate

you dont need brakes...other cars seem to move out of my way plus I get to where I am going much much faster w/out them lol
 
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