Bought a Cummins for my m1008

[landry1]

Just the other day i got a 1993 cummins 5spd manuel to put in my m1008. I am doing this for my senior project to graduate high school.... anyway
I was wondering if anyone else has done something else like this becuase I have some questions about somethings. Please let me know

 

[Blood_of_Tyrants]

You have quite a project ahead of you. First, convert the system over to 12 v. (do a search here for a how to) You will need a transfer case, too, as well as both drive shafts to weld onto the GM shafts. You will also have to manufacture your own motor mounts and modify the transmission cross member. You will find dozens of other small things that must be modified, too. Good luck.

 

[landry1]

I found out a company that makes motor mounts to fit a cummins into a gm truck. so atleast i dont have to fabracate my own!

 

[niferous]

Why would he need a different transfer case? Chevrolet used the NV4500 as a standard trans same as the Dodge for years. If anything he will probably just have to get an adapter kit.

 

[Crash_AF]

The 1993 dodge would have the Getrag, not the 4500. It would also have the 205 transfer case.

Sounds like a cool senior project. Good luck with it and take lots of pics.

Later,
Joe

 

[beaubeau]

Sounds like a good project. It should make a good runner with the gearing of axels and the 5spd over. Patience while doing it. Good luck, Phil

 

[Croatan_Kid]

I could type you a freakin novel (and I probably will anyway)....but I'm just going to post a link to my build thread on another website. Read over it a few times and if you still have questions, feel free to ask.

I just got done with mine a few weeks ago. It's quite the project to tackle and quite expensive. Some parts are extremely hard to find, others not so much and the rest are just expensive! There are very few things you will actually have to fabricate as there are quite a few people that have done this and I know of at least two people that do this for a living.

Now then, I'm going to refer you to www.4btswaps.com. There's a vendor on there by the screen name of CrewCab59. His name is Scott and he runs Tennessee Diesel Conversions, great guy, awesome service, and excellent parts! He makes motor mounts and engine crossmembers that use GM engine isolators for easy installation. He can also get you most of the hard to find parts if you'd like.


Just to make things a little clearer, I'll try to make a list of the things you're going to need right off the top of my head.


Motor (turbo & intercooler, radiator, etc)
motor mounts/crossmember
engine plate/bellhousing/clutch fork
clutch & flywheel
transmission (1996 or newer Chevy NV4500 with a Dodge input shaft or 1994 or newer Dodge NV4500)
transfer case (1985-1991 Chevy 32 spline NP205 "round pattern" or a 1989-1993 Dodge 29spline NP205)
rear driveshaft (the front one will still work)
transmission crossmember from a mid 80's truck with a 700R4 (drops on the passenger side and works great)
transmission mount
1985 or newer Chevy truck clutch pedal set
1995 F350 clutch master cylinder
1995 Dodge 2500 clutch slave cylinder
clutch line (get it from Scott at TDC on 4bt Swaps)

That's it for the most part I've spent between $8000 and $9000 on mine so far with all the parts a pieces I've had to acquire. The big spenders are the transmission and transfer case. NV4500s are expensive no matter what, but it's easier to use the 1996 and up Chevy transmission and use a newer model NP205 because the Dodge 205s were only made from 89-93 and are VERY rare and expensive. The Chevys are rare too, easier to find though and still kinda spendy.


Here's the link to the buildup of my truck.

6 in a Row Make it Go! - Page 25 - WheelinDixie.com


You'll start getting into the good stuff of the build thread at like page 30 or so I think. It took me so long, I forget, lol!


Lemme know what I can do to help. I'm pretty good at finding parts.



EDIT: Since it took so long to type that, I just now noticed you have a trans and transfer case already. Sweet! But I would really suggest ditching the Getrag 360 5speed in favor of a Dodge NV4500, it's very easy to swap out and doesn't require much to do it and the NV4500 is way stronger. You also have the 29 spline Dodge 205 so that's a plus as well!

Oh...and wiring this thing up will be extrememly easy! There are only 7 wires: 3 on the alternator, 2 on the starter, 1 to the fuel shutoff solenoid, and a ground wire. Don't worry about converting it to 12 volt before swapping motors, you'll take care of it during the swap. Just ditch everything that has to do with the glowplug control system and a few other things, again, very easy to do.

The 5 speed will help a great deal, but with 4.56s, you will still need/want bigger tires or higher gears for much use at highway speeds. I'm running 39s and kinda wish I had 4.10s as it still feels a little over geared with that much torque, but I doubt I'll ever hook to anything I can't pull if it'll get traction!

 

[Coal Cracker]

You don't have to convert to stick if you didn't want to. You could keep the Th400 in the truck, and leave all the driveline components the same and not have to remove.

All you'd need is a plate and flywheel from a early 90's chevy bread truck with a 4B cummins, they run the 4B with a TH 400, I've done the convert to a 79 chevy 3/4 ton plow truck, used an old 12 valve.

Good luck, please post pics when you do it.

 

[Croatan_Kid]

Wooof! A 6BT, turbo400, and 4.56s?! That'd be a screamer! He's right though, that's definitely an option.

I decided I wanted to go manual along with my Cummins because I had previously built and swapped a 700R4 behind my 6.2 with the 39s. Sure, I could cruise a lot better, but the power wasn't there and the automatic just wasn't doing it for me anymore. Now I have both Plus, I love to hear my turbo spool up when I put the hammer down and it sounds like a big rig with the 4" pipes I'm running

 

[bigelk50]

Sounds like a great project good luck and take lots of pics!

 

[Coal Cracker]

Wooof! A 6BT, turbo400, and 4.56s?! That'd be a screamer! He's right though, that's definitely an option.

I decided I wanted to go manual along with my Cummins because I had previously built and swapped a 700R4 behind my 6.2 with the 39s. Sure, I could cruise a lot better, but the power wasn't there and the automatic just wasn't doing it for me anymore. Now I have both Plus, I love to hear my turbo spool up when I put the hammer down and it sounds like a big rig with the 4" pipes I'm running

I see your point, that's why I like my 6 speed 24 valve

God speed, I'd love to see this

 

[landry1]

the reason why i got a the 5spd getrag is becuase i know some one who did the same converion of putting a cummins in a chevy but keeping the gm tranny. he went through about 10 tannys then finally went to a 5sp getrag and its been working perfect every since.
and thankyou for the tips on what to do!

 

[Crash_AF]

If you keep the Getrag, you can improve its reliability and longevity by taking the shifter off and overfilling the transmission by about a pint. The angle that Dodge installed the Getrag at caused it to starve the front bearings when filled to the fill plug level.

Later,
Joe

 

[nhdiesel]

Sounds like a fun project, but here's a few tips. First, don't listen to reports of $10k swaps. I did a more complex swap than this in my Durango, when I put a 4bt Cummins in it. Complete cost, including the donor bread truck and many new parts, was about $4k. The most expensive parts were the bread truck ($1300), NV4500 trans ($635 used w/Maine tax), and new clutch & flywheel (around $550). I didn't have a complete donor drivetrain, so I had to buy more individual parts, adding to the cost.

I would suggest not using the Getrag as well because they are known to have reliability issues. The NV4500 is really the way to go. You probably won't have major problems with the Getrag though, since the M1008 is much lighter than anything a Cummins/Getrag combo was available in. And you won't be pulling 20k lb. trailers like a lot of the Dodge guys who push their trucks.

Take lots and LOTS of measurements. I was able to keep my original driveshafts in the Durango by carefully placing the engine so that the transfer case ended up in the stock location. No expensive adapters were needed- I used a Dodge Cummins flywheel housing, bellhousing, clutch & flywheel. The trans was from a Ram 2500 4x4 V-8, which used the same 23 spline output as my Durango transfer case, and I bought a diesel input shaft to work with the Cummins clutch. The hydraulics came from a Dakota, and bolted right in. The only welding done for the whole swap were the motor mounts and minor mods to the trans crossmember.

One other thing- you WILL need to change axle gears! With my 3.54 axle gears and overdrive trans I can just cruise nicely at 70 mph. With 4.56, 31" tires, and a cruising RPM of 2000, your cruising speed in overdrive will be about 55 mph. I would go with 4.11 gears for around town use, and 3.73 or 3.54 for better highway running. With 31s I still wish I had 3.08 gears when I'm on the highway.

Jim

 

[jay741]

where in ri are you?

 

[Croatan_Kid]

There's really no way to move the motor around much in one of these trucks, you want it as close to the firewall as you can get it so you have room for your fan or fans, whether it be mechanical or electric. The 6BTs are about a 3 foot cube and obviously take up a lot of space.

As far as driveshafts, the rear will need to be changed or at the least modified no matter what. The original setup used a slip yoke at the transfer case and the Dodge 205 has a fixed yoke. In addition to that, the Dodge 205 uses a 1410 series u-joint whereas the stock yoke on the 14 bolt rear will be a 1350 series. You could run a 1410 front and add a slip into the driveshaft, but it's be easier to upgrade the rear yoke and have a new shaft made. Depending on the front output on the NP205, the front driveshaft may bolt to it, the length will be good. Since I used a Chevy 205, it bolted right to it on a flat, 4-bolt flange.

Swapping gears will be quite expensive. So to me, putting bigger tires on is easier. Not sure what direction you'd like to go with this truck, but hear me out.

The carrier break with the GM 14-bolt and Dana 60 is 4.10 and down/ 4.56 and up. This means that to go from a 4.56 to a 3.73 you would not only need a gearset and install kit, you would also need a new ring gear carrier for the front and rear diffs. Open carriers for 14-bolts are somewhat difficult to find, the Dana 60s aren't so bad though.

You could throw on some 35s, leave the 4.56s and drop the RPM down to around 1800 at 55 MPH.



Obviously, as with any swap, there are some things you just can't avoid. However, there's always more than one way to do something, these are just my experiences with my swap. I chose to buy some things new and I'm picky about parts, so I spent a little more here and there. Even so, most of my parts are stock GM stuff from different year model trucks.

 

[nhdiesel]

Well obviously he has much less room to work with than I did...I just used my case as an example for why its important to take his time and plan it out. I got my designations mixed up and thought this was going into a M1009, was thinking his was a Blazer, which would have been much cheaper to swap gears in. Regardless, with lots of planning and careful part's searching, the costs can be kept fairly low. I was told repeatedly that my swap was going to cost $10k plus, and this was by guys who have done lots of 4bt swaps. $4k+ for an engine, $1500 for a trans, $2k for a flywheel and heavy duty clutch kit (unnecessary for a 130hp diesel), and a couple grand worth of misc. parts to bring it all together. I did it, and did it RIGHT (no cut corners) for around $4k. Its all in how you plan it, how much research you do, etc.

Jim

 

[Croatan_Kid]

Agreed!

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance...and results lol


What really started adding the cost to my swap was the "round pattern" Chevy NP205. They're really hard to find and I bought one from a guy that rebuilds them along with everything I needed to bolt it to a Chevy NV4500, plus a cast iron tailhousing for the 4500. It cost a pretty penny, but it'll be good to go for a long, long time. In the end, I really don't think I would have done anything different, I was just tired of searching for parts and having my truck sit in the shop collecting dust, it's a lot more fun to drive it!

I know I could have done it for a lot less, but I don't really feel like I spent too much on any one part, except maybe the transfer case. It definitely sucks when you start from scratch!

 

[nhdiesel]

If you want to talk about a REAL tight swap, when I was researching my Durango swap I found a guy who put a 6b into a Dakota! He cheated though and used a solid front axle. Once I got my 4bt in I saw where I have some extra room, although I can't see anywhere to put an intercooler. And if I were running a non-intercooled 6b, might as well run an intercooled 4bt for the same, or more power.

Jim

 

[12vctd]

Ok I have a little time swapping 6bt cummins into chevy truck platforms, as I own 3 myself. Also I have a few dodges with cummins. As far as the getrag trans goes if your not looking to push more than 500hp to the rear wheels, then I would simply suggest you rebuild it over fill it atleast 1 quart, and install it, the primary things that hurt a getrag 360 is heat, but there are a few things you can do to fix this. Alost get rid of the pilot bushing and install a pilot bearing in the flywheel. I am saying this assuming its a 4x4 trans in the first place, pluse if you have the np205 that was mated behind it your gonna save alot of money in the long run. Alot of ppl push NV4500's and they are a great trans, but the getrag is a stout trans, and would serve you well. I personally can attest to a getrag withstanding 639 hp and 1187 ft/lbs of tq pulling cattle trailers daily, playing on the farm, and even sled pulling. If you go with the getrag, get a 1410 yoke for you 14bolt(high angle driveline as well as others sell these), and have a shaft built. If you decide you want a NV4500 yes the chevy trans is better as long as its a HD version, mainly due to the fact that the 5th gear nut issues on the dodge version. but theres other differences such as a 32 spline output shaft as opposed to a 29 spline, on the dodge version of the HD nv4500. Nv4500 also has a bettter option of gears, first is slightly lower at 5.61 for the dodge nv 4500 as opposed to 5.53 on the getrag 360. and a slightly higher Od gear. You picked a great power plant, with many options for both power and economy. No matter what trans you choose, I recomend while the motor is out of the truck you replace the rear main seal with the newer updated seal part number 489342. Again this is just my .0, and you have a great project ahead, with some research from others mistakes you should be able to save a few bucks. I have done swaps on the cheap and also a few that well cost me enough that I could have jst bought a newer truck lol. its all in what your looking for. Best of luck to you.