Considering a Pinzgauer... nervous

[Nacademus]

Hey all.

For a couple years or so, I've somewhat coveted the idea of having a Pinzgauer. I currently own a M1008 and enjoy it greatly. I always peeped at auctions online for the random postings of a Pinz here and there, but most of those seem to be less than complete-and sourcing through an importer was not something that I could financially bring myself to do. I mean, I could if I really wanted to, but I wouldn't find enough utility to justify the initial cost. The area that I live is leaves much to be desired in terms of off-roading (Northern Ohio) and overall exploring, which is what I hoped to do with a Pinzgauer...camp, explore, enjoy a few trails, just have fun driving it around, etc.

I know a guy who has owned a Pinz for 15 years or so and came to me about perhaps purchasing it. It is a 1975 710M.

He said that its been sitting for about 10 years of so, but its under a totally covered car port outside.

I had a chance to stop by and take a look at it.

The body appears to be in fantastic shape. A little rust on the edges of things, but overall, I am quite happy with it. It looks as though the body was completely replaced at one time. I can't believe something of this age has so little rust. BUT, I know to attribute that to the galvanization.

I was unable to hear it run since the carbs leak. It cranks over well and seems healthy while cranking... if that means anything. The engine looks clean and I don't see any seals weeping or any sign of abuse. It actually looks pretty good. I don't remember what the odometer said exactly, but he did say it had around 30,000 km on it.

The dash was clean, the levers moved well, seats were in good condition, floorboards were really clean (I didn't take the diamond plate off the flood, but around it looks pretty much flawless).

I am unable to drive it even if it ran because he said that a wheel cylinder may be leaking and his brake fluid level is dropping in the reservoir.

He also said that the tail lights are intermittent and may need some wiring done on them.

Tires are original Maloyas with descent tread. Levers on dashboard all move properly and don't bind. I moved them gently.

I would like to buy it, but I have a couple concerns with this vehicle and was hoping that maybe a post here with some photos could really help me decide.

Above the driver's head, the canvas has a small spot where it is worn and he said water can come in. I saw it. Its the size of a dime and its not even really a even a hole. I think that maybe a Bimini repair kit could fix that up... or maybe just some sort of resin patch. I'm not really concerned about appearances too much so long as I can make it workable. I appreciate the truck for what it is.

There is another thin area at the rear of the truck as well-over the cargo area. Again, its small. The plastic windows are hazed over and there is a cut in one of them at the rear that makes a 3" hole. I think I could patch these issues, but would certainly want to do it right. I would research that when/if I bought it.

Underneath is where my real concerns start to visualize.

I can see that all 4 axle boots have cuts and I can see oil seepage from the boots. This may indicate a worn seal oring, right? It could even just be from sitting. He said it never left any oil drips or anything from what he could recall, and I couldn't find any evidence of dripping on the ground myself. Again, all 4.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=422778&d=1366133470


There is some wetness or seeping between the cases that caught my eye. Again, I am unsure if I should worry about that or just chock it up with sitting for 10+ years. I also see some wetness at the slave cylinder... unsure as to what that could be from.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=422775&d=1366133420

He said his brake reservoir was losing fluid level and though that a wheel cylinder was to blame. However he never really traced that out to verify. I can see leakage between the booster and master cylinder. He said that he didn't lose braking ability so long as it was full. Maybe its just loosing fluid at the booster? Other than that, it doesn't look took bad under the dash. I asked if that brake line was newer or replaces and he didn't know. He was the first owner in the US aside from an importer.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=422779&d=1366133491

Here is the only photo of the floor area I snapped with my phone. This is the center area. Its not that great, buts its the best of the diamond plate that I have.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=422777&d=1366133455


It has been sitting 14 years and had old OLD motor oil and gear oil in it. Never changed more than once-the month he brought it home. Only drove it 200 miles or so since he;s owned it, he said.

It has all the tools and chains. The jerrycan. He upgraded the ignition with a Pertronix unit. It has new batteries. Apart from that, I don't know what else I could say about it.

What do you think an honest offer for this vehicle is? He told me what he wanted, then did the whole "but for you $XXXX". He is a really great guy and spent well over an hour just fielding my questions and talking to me about it. I don't think he was trying to hide anything from me or slight me. Before I left he asked me what I would offer, and that he knew that what he said he'd sell it to me for was out of the question or not as reasonable since he couldn't get it running and I couldn't test drive it. He apologized for that and asked me if I was still interested to make an offer as is, but I couldn't just yet.

He said he will include all the books with it-repair manuals (3-4 of them, in print), and some other odds and ends stuff he has for it, tools and what not.

It has the importation paperwork and was titled, so I don't think that's an issue. He said insuring the Pinz wasn't hard at all.

I'm sorry I wrote a book but I hope that someone chimes in to give me some pointers or even just their thoughts on the matter. I'd really like to have it... but I am afraid of a lot of upfront maintenance costs. I just want to have some fun with it, maybe enjoy the summer off in the woods somewhere, or just have fun putting around town.

At the very least, I could get it at a good price, fix it up and enjoy it a summer or two and just sell it. I don't want to be upside down though.

Oh, and my girlfriend thinks its cute... so that really caught me off guard. Everyone I know thinks I ought to go for it. Good vibes certainly help.

 

[Mercunimog404]

Pinzies are cool reliable trucks. Just YouTube them and see how amazing they are off road. It's easy to get parts for them as well. Good luck.

 

[rchalmers3]

Wow, thanks for the details on your "barn find".

I think your apprehension is natural and expected. If you trust your skills and are willing to take on some new tasks in repairing a machine, the Pinz is a great starting point. Even if you don't have the skills or proper tools, you can still learn a lot and gain the confidence. Either way, you are the winner because you are taking on the possession of a vehicle you desire.

I'd say lay it all out with the seller. Use your apprehension as a bargaining chip to negotiate a price that satisfies you both. As I see it, leaving a little money on the table with the seller will be advantageous as he has been great with you and can be a good resource going forward.

Plus, you have us and this wonderful forum as resources to see you through!

Rick

 

[tennmogger]

You may have found yourself a gem! With an air cooled engine the main cause of engine problems if sitting a long time, water seepage, is not an issue. Those trucks can and have often sat for years at a time.

There's one thing to be aware of with the early Pinzgauers, and that is 'exec' level of the differentials. The earlier Exec I diffs could develop lube issues on the spider gears. Exec II gears were developed to avoid that lube problem.

Exec I is not a problem unless you drive in such a way to work the diffs hard, like offroading, hard powered curves, figure 8's in parking lots (grin) or donuts. You get the idea. Spider gears get zero wear in straight driving! Normal driving does not stress the diffs as much and they can last forever. Obviously the present owner has not worked the truck at all and it was probably in top condition when imported if it came from European militaries.

Read about the issue here: http://real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerBBS/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7543 These guys know Pinzies!

Personally, knowing what you stated, you have opportunity looking at you if his price is reasonable at all.

Bob

 

[Nacademus]

I didn't think about the Exec I or II axles. I read about it, but I thought that Exec II was aftermarket. I was more concerned with ending up with something like this:

*photos by Expedition Imports


I didn't know that some Pinzgauers were imported with Exec II already in them. I had read about the oiling issues under stress, and frankly, this guy seemed like it was a pavement queen. I doubt he would know for certain whether or not if they're I or II.

I would have to take a look myself... I think he'd let me, but I'd probably need to drain the oil myself to see.



It's almost worth it for me to offer to do that just so I can take a peek. I am waiting for better weather to go look at it to further assess the vehicle. He was in no rush, he said. He said I can come over anytime and crawl all over it and underneath it and check out whatever I want to.

 

[T815-8x8]

I worked on several that had belonged to " Borrego Paul " of former Borrego Desert Tours, I don't know what exc' level they were but 1 did lock up its rest diff' had endless issues with carbs and 2 of them with head sealing problems ( compression leaks, think bottom line they probably got overheated in the endless 100F + days.
But great besides this

 

[Nacademus]

That's one way to warp it. What carb issues did you develop?
His were leaking out of here-where I circled.

He said he tightened it up but they're still leaking. He said that they leaked somewhere else and this current leak is new.

 

[T815-8x8]

Yes they leaked at that location, but as I remember the main issue was worn throttle shafts / butterflies so you could not get a consist smooth idle to 1/4 throttle. We had looked at re carbing with Webers etc but it never happened.
As you may know a UK guy has converted several to diesel with VW Golf / Passat 4cyl.
This was back around 2000 - 04 era obviously EFI systems for DIY has improved immensely since, so maybe this is the option. Reason we had looked at re carbing was his Pinz's had less than 10k kms on them, but had worn carbs

 

[Nacademus]

He was assuring me that they probably just need rebuilt. He did indicate that it wouldn't idle right no matter what he did. I bet you're right. There is probably some serious wear in the carb.

Maybe that's why he let it sit so long. It probably has a bigger issue than he lead on.

If I could get it cheap enough, tossing a diesel in it would be a dream come true. I like diesels.

 

[T815-8x8]

What can say on the positive side is above 1/4 they always ran great, not withstanding cyl' sealing issues, in the Porsche world I hear that those IMO carbs are the business. I know that after market will be cheaper and better than OE

Sean

 

[Karl kostman]

Sounds like its certainly got some good potential, I was looking very hard for a 712 for a while and actually found a nice one in FL it had been advertised all over the place for sale so I called the owner and made him an offer 2K less than he was asking and he hung up on me! Great vehicles from all the research I did when I was actively in the market. Parts seem fairly available through Expedition Imports. Good luck and keep us posted
KK

 

[6x6pinz]

The Real 4x forum has pretty much covered your issues. It is the "pinzgauer" place to be. These can be great trucks if you get a good one or the worst truck you ever own if it is one of the very rare lemons. The EXEC II was just an upgrade that came along dealing with lubrication inside the differentials. It is a factory upgrade and standard on all pinzies in the eighties. If the military had to do work on the diffs they would upgrade, so a good portion have them. We have lots of pinzies running around with the EXEC I in them and there is just no way to tell the difference short of draining all the fluid and looking up inside (you have to know what to look for) Carbs are hit and miss. I drive mine pinzies almost everyday. I have been lucky and the carbs have held up very well. Some of the guys here had to have the bases bored, bushed and reshafted ($150 per carb) then all the problems were solved. There are certain quirks about these trucks. If you are not up on them they will give you lots of grey hair. Maintenance is the key to owning one. Either buy a running one or be prepared to spend some $$$'s. Nothing worse then someone buying one of these trucks that sat forever and then complaining about how bad they are because they have to spend $3-$4K to get them running properly.

 

[CliffSegar]

My Pinz had idle "issues" until I noticed that one of them was loose at the body/throttle base. Repairing that seems to have fixed most idle problems - and a bit more power on hills! The screws had become loose and wallowed out their threads. I epoxied the holes and installed Helicoils and life is much better. A total carb rebuild would probably be good for a 40 year old vehicle anyway.
The most nagging problem is the coating in the fuel tank pealing off due to modern gasoline. ALWAYS carry spare fuel filters. There is a 'fix' for that problem which I should do sometime.
These engines also have solid valve lifters. Doing the adjustment is necessary for good idle as well as road performance. Sure makes for easier starting also!
I've had this 710K for 2 years and it is my daily drive. The odometer says I've put 30k Km on it in 2 years. Rust spots are always an issue. I doubt the Swiss kept them garaged and rumor has it that they have snow and ice in that part of the world. Thawing, freezing, dripping and running water will find every crack and crevice possible. We know the end result. A total soda blast and repaing would probably cure many of those - and show where repair is really needed.
You will need to do work on any 40 year old vehicle. It just depends on how much time you want to spend. If you get the unit, get a shop manual also.

 

[B3.3T]

I've had a 710M for 7 years. Wife loves to drive it, too, and we've maintained it properly. Had zero problems, and that includes serious off-roading in Kentucky and several long cross-country trips.

 

[ollied]

I had 712 for 3 years. Only repairs were to carbs, floats and new needle and seats . Sold for more than i paid for it, wish i had it back

 

[smoothoperator]

Did you purchase the "barn find"?

 

[Another Ahab]

Subscribed

- From what I read, nobody ever talks down about these machines
- And instead every comment I've read always swears by them.

i'm interested to learn more...

 

[MarkM]

Great trucks and super well made and will fit into a normal parking spot.

 

[EmbarkChief]

Also narrow enough to fit on a standard trailer, great for easy transport!

 

[Nacademus]

Sorry for the lack of update, guys. My father recently passed away and I've been taking it really hard.

Having a tough time finding any motivation to get another toy like this. Working on these projects was something we did together. I have a tough enough time going into the garage I was left with-let alone continuing on without him.