Deal......or no deal?

[wreckerman893]

I was offered a deuce for $4000.00 today.
I cranked it and it is a "whistler turbo". The engine sounds good with no clatter, knocks, or excess smoke.
It has a soft top, winch, and needs paint. The wood on the side racks is shot.
The rear tires are fair to good but the front ones are dished out on the outside (Sp rag gear problems?)
I didn't see a leaver under the dash for an air shift.
It appears to have a wheel cylinder leaking on the back rear axle.
I have not driven it but I moved it backward and forward and the clutch and brakes seemed to work OK.
I'm attaching some pics.
I'd like some opinions on the asking price. I think it is a deal but I will defer to the experts.

 

[clinto]

I think that's a bit high..................................especially for a sprag truck.

 

[rmgill]

If you can talk them down to $3500 I'd consider it a good price. When I started looking practical considerations seemed like $6000 for a basic winch truck as reasonable. Some of these guys can talk a truck driver out of his truck with a load in the back, but I'm not that good.

 

[liljohn]

X2 from the pics I'd try to talk him down a bit. Offer 3 and see what happens.

 

[DDoyle]

There is a lot of variation in price based in large part on intended use. If you intended to actually use the truck, the sprag-type transfer case can be considered a liability, because it requires periodic adjustment. However, preservationists (such as myself) will pay far more for an all original truck with a LDS-427 and sprag transfer than a truck that has been "improved" with LDT, air-shift, etc. that is non-factory.

The other major factor would be your skills - I have poor body skills, but decent at turning wrenches - therefore, I'm more concerned about the sheet metal than I am mechanical - fixing sheet metal requires me spend $ on labor, whereas mechanical work is "free" for me.

Hope this helps,
David Doyle

 

[FSBruva]

DDoyle -

What do you mean "all original truck?" Do you mean M35? Or M35A1? Or M35A2? For a truck that rolled off the assembly line for over 30 years, I am just wondering which you consider original.

Wreckerman-

As for that price, I agree with clinto and liljohn. For 4K I would expect to see: 1.) airshift and a little less rust 2.) sprague, good troops seats and a LOT less rust.

As SS member maccus pointed out, engines can be repaired and seals can be replaced, but rust is forever.

Matt

 

[CGarbee]

I'll just pop in and say that the wear pattern you describe for the front tires sounds like the common wear pattern for these trucks... They tend to push when going around cornerns since the rear axles don't have a differntial between them, and the fronts wear bad on the outer half of the tread as a result, especially on the back side of the lugs... One way to lessen this is to remove the inter axle driveshaft from the rear... It is not necessarily an indication of a bad sprague unit...

If the truck is really sound mechanically and has been recently treated to a PM, I'd go 3-3500 if I was going to use it myself, less if I was planning on reselling it after painting, etc...

 

[littlebob]

I bought mine at a GSA auction and paid $1210.00 The cab was totally shot and I found
a used one that was servicable but I have to weld in some patches in a couple of places.
I'm in the middle of refurbishing mine and I've already spent lots of hours of quality time on my new toy and spent about $3000.00 on things I know I need to replace, If you want a project that will consume a lot of time and and possibly a lot of money, then this is the truck for you. I figure I will probably have more money in mine that it will ever be worth, but It will be done the way I want and I will have the satisfaction of knowing what I have. If you just want to have one and drive it I wouldn't consider it at any price because it would require a lot of time and money.
P.S mine doesen't have a winch

Littlebob

 

[devilman96]

I paid 2600 for mine with about 1/3 the rust, wench, air sprag, 3 sets of troop seats, rust proofed cab and bed, etc, etc, etc... Had to buy a clutch and head gaskets there after but didn't matter much with what I was doing to it.

Not trying to knock her... Any deuce is worth the love and effort but I think the asking should be about half.

 

[SETOYOTA]

Wreckerman

Time for a shamlees plug here. I've got a good running turbo deuce with airshift and new paint ready to go for $3800. non winch truck. Located in middle GA. If you are interested let me know

 

[DDoyle]

All original doesn't vary with model - it means equipped as it left the factory - and yes I have some in the 30 - and even 50+ year range that are still that way....but they have to be sought out, many, many have been repowered by the government, or otherwise modified by civilians.

Best,
David

 

[emmado22]

So what do we count trucks that left the factory, got in the motorpool, and somone ordered a radio, ring mount, or other type of equipment to be added for mission.... Say the work is all dont as per the TM. Is it "original"?

 

[wreckerman893]

Thanks for all the input. I had a deuce on my GL watchlist and it sold today for less than 2k. It didnt' have a winch and had rust issues too. Sounds like you guys are on the money.

I didn't speak to the owner in person so he might deal if I showed him the color of my money.

SETOYTA....If I can't deal with this guy I'll keep you in mind. I really want a winch model. Are you going to be at Clinto's rally?

I'm going to try to attend but it ain't looking good due to family matters.

 

[DDoyle]

original vs non-original

I don't really want to hi-jack this man's thread...

First of all, the key to my statement is one should buy what YOU want. If you want a deuce painted purple with pink polka dots, powered by a Detroit Diesel, and running on earth mover tires - then buy it.

But know that that truck is worth far more to you than it will be to other people. While I write a lot of military books, I truly make my living writing a variety of price guides - and I begin with the same advice in each one - buy what you want - at a price that you are pleased with. Beyond that, no one else's opinion really matters.

I am approached at dozens of shows by people hauling up various items and saying "I bought this - what is it worth?" And the following conversation goes like this:

me "Do you like it?"
them "yes"
me "that's a nice _______ (locomotive, crane, pot, book), what did you have to give for it?"
them "XYZ" dollars.
me: "Then I'd say this one is worth XYZ dollars" - only if you are not happy with it is it worth less - and only if you accpet someone else offer of more is it worth more."

On the subject of restorations/modifications. A restored vehicle is representative of a snapshot in time. If a person wanted a truck to represent a truck and the end of the assembly line - then it should have no bumper markings, no stars, and all the OVM should be crated.....and there should be no deviation from its as-built status.

My M62 has all the upgrades it recieved during its service life - its representative of its final military configuration.

I have a friend - and I'll emphasis he is happy with his truck, and that is what is important - he has invested lots of dollars, and many man-hours - in this vehicle - but to me it worth very little. He took a good clean gas shop van, repowered it with a LDS-465, swapped on a cargo bed, added a winch, big radial tires, and added considerable instrumentation in the cab. Although its painted (beautifully) OD - it really isn't a "restored" anything - its a fine home-built truck - which he enjoys immensely.

Because in most cases the actual service histories of our vehicles are unknown - its darn near impossible to do a true restoration....hence most of us do representations. An accurate representation of a M34 in Korea in 1951 would not include seat belts or NATO lights. A truck accurately representing one in 1970 Vietnam - as indicated by current research - would not have a LDT-465 - but rather an LD-465.

All this is the reason for my initial comment - that one should consider what you are going to do with the truck when determining what it is worth to you. If you wanna do WWII reenactments - a M35A2 is pretty well worthless - if you want to build a mud bogger - the driveline configuration is very important - if you want to do a factory class show restoration, then beginning with the original engine and transfer configuration can save a lot of money.

Best wishes,
David Doyle

 

[wreckerman893]

David....point well taken. I want a MV to use when I retire. I have a tractor I will pull around and I want to be able to haul a load. It will not be a CONCORS (?) restoration or a representation of any vehicle I drove in the Army. It will be a beast of burden and will probably be run hard and put up wet sometimes. Knowing the ability of these vehicles to take abuse heaped on them helped me decide that I want one.
Thanks again for the input.

 

[liljohn]

David,

Excellent post! Your reasoning is very solid. It also illustrates the diversity of a "restoration" - i.e. factory, field, etc.

I caught some grief a while back when I said I was going to brush-paint my deuce for a more original look. The argument was deuce's didn't leave the factory brush-painted - which is true.

But my father, who served in Vietnam, has said that's how it was done in the field. I even got one helpful reply in that thread from a guy who served in Germany who said they used to just dump a gallon of paint on the hood and spread it around. Personally I'm going for a "field original" look, like someone plucked it out of Vietnam in 1971 and plopped it in my garage. Not a show truck by any means. The pop-riveted panels here and there don't bother me at all - it reminds me the truck has a proud history and heritage.

This is what makes the truck for me - but it might make it worthless to someone who's going for a "factory original" setup. Mine would take far too much work to get it there. New sheet metal, stripping a lot of paint, etc etc. It's all in what you want!

That being said, Wreckerman, just from seeing the amount of rust in the pics and your description of the small mechanical problems, I think you can find better. IIRC $4k was what we originally paid for mine. No winch, troop seats needed some work, but overall not much rust and in mechanically outstanding shape.

Timeline is another thing to consider. The longer you can wait, the better price you can hold out for. I'm sure if you waited you could find one in much better shape. Especially since it's going to be a work truck, some rust like that won't necessarily matter to you as much, but it will definitely drive the price down!

 

[FSBruva]

Good point -

I only found my truck (1965, 110 hours, 9000 miles, winch, hardtop, military insulation, airshift, troop seats, D-turbo) for $5K only after I had given up all hope of ever finding a truck. Sometimes they find you! I would just echo liljohn's comment - unless you NEED the truck, hold out and find one that's going to last.

Matt

 

[wreckerman893]

I have plenty of time to find a vehicle since my retirement is at least two years away.

There is also the chance I could still get an all expense paid trip to the neather regions of this planet and my MV would have to sit up for six months at a time while I was gone.

The same guy said he has several more trucks that he would take less for but they are fixer-uppers.

The reason this one caught my eye was that it was close to home, I could crank it and drive it, and it seemed to be in good shape.

It supposedly had been gone through and all fluids and filters changed.

The rust is all surface and I gave it a pretty good once over for hidden damage.

A comparable civilian truck would probably cost at least as much and would have a lot more mileage and wear on it.

I may be able to find one at Camp Shelby and go down and check it out before it goes on GL. I have friends in lower places down there.

Again.....thanks for all the great advice and input. This is a great forum. I'm looking forward to meeting some of you characters in person in the future.

 

[houdel]

It looks a bit shabby, but does have a winch. 3K-3500 would be tops, considering what it will cost to restore to "Motor Pool class A" configuration, presuming you want a good looking truck, not a work truck. A set of troops seats, bows, cargo cover and paint touch up will set you back at least a grand or more, depending on how important appearance is to you.