Deuce in the mud

[IronPig]

How can I get my deuce to perform better on soft ground?

My truck came with what appear to be the standard skinny tires and duals on both rear axles. They cut through soft ground like a knife and leave the truck stuck too easily. I think the truck would perform better on the soft ground with higher floatation tires.

I've seen pics of M35's on wider tires and singled out rears:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/modules/PNphpBB2/files/4_tons_of_gravel_729.jpg

Is this a stock configuration for the M35?

Can the conversion be done to one that originally came with duals, if so where can I get parts to do it?

TIA,

 

[bbbang]

Hi: You might take a look at this site: www.usa6x6.com There are lots of options to single out a truck.

 

[BKubu]

I have 1100 Michelin XLs on one deuce and it digs through mud very well. I know some others prefer other tires...or even bigger tires, but I love the XLs. The truck came from the military with these tires on it.

 

[mangus580]

How can I get my deuce to perform better on soft ground?

Dont drive it there!!!



There is usually only one place a deuce will go in soft ground.... STRAIGHT DOWN!!

I was amazed at how fast even devilman's deuce sunk with the big tires on it.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Re: Deuce in the mud

High floatation tires will have a different aspect ratio, say 60-70% and will also require wider wheels.
Best way to simulate high floatation tires is to reduce pressure to about 10 psi.

If "working" off-road nothing beats chains regardless of tire tread IMHO.
I'm learning a little about the tires on the 8x8, which came from factory with 70% aspect ratio tires. The original "Super Swampers".
Apparently the best match for this vehicle are tires used on loaders, graders etc. They are not DOT approved necessarily, a drawback perhaps.

mangus580:
There is usually only one place a deuce will go in soft ground.... STRAIGHT DOWN!!

That's not a bad thing if there is a harder bottom within reach, but again, tire chains may be needed....

The image below shows the Twister prototype (ca 196 with "loader" tires.

 

[BFR]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/modules/PNphpBB2/files/4_tons_of_gravel_729.jpg

Is this a stock configuration for the M35?

Can the conversion be done to one that originally came with duals, if so where can I get parts to do it?

TIA,

That is Gerhard's truck , custom wheels. I believe his suspension is stock. yes it can be done to a truck that originally had duals.

If I were going to buy the wheels to do that I would either deal w/ stazworks, or ODIron.

 

[IronPig]

RE: Re: Deuce in the mud

I've got some 52" XZL's but I don't think they will fit a deuce without relocating the rear axles. I'm not sure if they will fit the front without a lift. The other problem I have with the XZL's is that I have no wheels for them. I know USA 6x6 makes custom wheels, is there no standard military single wheel/tire combo for this truck?

I'm not trying to build a mud bog truck, but we do use the truck on the farm. In the low ground there are places I need to get to for road-work that any other truck would drive with no problem but the 13,600 lb M35 sinks like a stone.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[cranetruck]

Re: RE: Re: Deuce in the mud

.... In the low ground there are places I need to get to for road-work that any other truck would drive with no problem but the 13,600 lb M35 sinks like a stone.

Thanks for all the advice.

Read my post above.

 

[BFR]

Re: RE: Re: Deuce in the mud

is there no standard military single wheel/tire combo for this truck?

there were actually 2 different wheels used to single out the m44 series trucks. Early in production (early 50's) a wheel that was the same as the "dual wheel" except it had less backspacing was used w/ 1100 20 tires.

At the very end of the m44 production the m35a3 was also produced as a "singled" truck. Those wheels are extremely rare in civvy hands and are priced accordingly. they are wider than what is on your truck. and were intended to be used with 14.5R20 tires.

the 1600R20 is meant for much bigger trucks than the 2.5 ton truck. (doesn't mean it can't be done)

 

[BFR]

I have the early style wheels w/ 1100 20 ND tires

 

[BFR]

A3 wheel

 

[BEASTMASTER]

if you're in real soft stuff i'm sure you're letting the tires down to the recomended 15 pounds ???

 

[maddawg308]

If you're off-roading in soft pack with a standing water (that would be a water puddle with mushy bottom, rather than hard-packed soil) don't expect any good movement in a deuce with open diffs and the stock NDTs. You're going to have to upgrade to locking diffs and some serious offroad tread, like HEMTT tires or Michelin XLs to grab that gumbo and keep moving forward. Airing down to 15 psi will help, but if you have softpack as a base, that still won't help that much, the deuce just weighs too much for it.

Offroading in mud comes down to ground psi of your footprint, and how your tread overcomes the muck. You need to spread out the weight as best you can in order to get through mud. The best type is a jeep with big tires, cause the ground pressure is spread out so much, and the jeep is light. The worst is a truck like a deuce, with smallish tires on it. The higher the ground pressure, the more you sink rather than move forward.

 

[emr]

As with ALL off and on road traction and stability, U have a give and a take, U always lose one to gain another, Singles always outperform duals, duals are WAY more stable than singles, US Marine Dueces have a locking diff already, Get a marine deuce or 5 ton for the least expensive way to get locking diff's, As for off road use, the above post about airing down is the single most important thing U can do, the NDT's are made to air way down, and they DO WORK..I do know that as for plowing thru mud a TALL and NARROW tire in a single fashion is by far the best way also in snow, a wide tire has to PUSH or a snow plow effect the material and hence U need MUCH more horspower/torque to get em thru, so a perfectly mached vehicle is rare, BUT the military has spent milions to reserch this, and there trucks are very very good, I include myself in this but driver error/ missed judgement is the biggest cause of getting stuck, not the truck...Randy

 

[emr]

Oh U would need one BIG tire to float a deuce.I have seen swamp buggys with 6ft tall narrow and seen em with super wide floatation, the type of terain U are going thru is never constant unless U are on a race type track, and remember the further U get in the good stuff the HARDER its going to be to get U out...LOL...Sounds like U need to be prepared and ready for recovery along with your tire options. if its that bad and U are going in anyway. ..Randy

 

[Recovry4x4]

The problem with deuces and it's even more pronounces with bobbed ones, its the nose weight. They are very nose heavy and sink like a rock. Front winches only add to this problem. 2 or 3K lbs at the back of the bed (maybe even more) should equalize that issue quite a bit. Look at the FL rally thread and everytime you see one stuck, the nose is buried. I've found that my old M35A2 did very well with a pallet of concrete sitting on the back of the bed. I'm wondering if an impromptu rack for suitcase weights on the back might help establish what weight works.

 

[IronPig]

if its that bad and U are going in anyway. ..Randy

It's not really _that_ bad, after all, the truck is mostly being used for road repair, so there is typically something loosely defined as a roadway there to begin with.

I'm an avid off-roader so I'm familiar with floatation and air pressure. I did not try airing down the (NDT?)'s. Truth to be told I made the typical rookie response of looking at the tire, the lack of significant lugs, the tall narrow profile and figured airing down wouldn't do much for my situation given the weight of the vehicle. It's funny how sometimes we need to be reminded to try the simple things first. My best mechanics who work for me are always those who seem to try the simple things first... dang, wish I was more like them!

I don't mind running singles, it's appropriate for the way this truck will be used. (lower load than designed for, primarily off road use) I do think it would help, particularly with a more aggressive tread. There have been some helpful posts in that direction here, I think I'd like to pursue it more.

I think lockers for this truck may be a year out. I'm an ARB dealer and have had good experiences with their products so I'll surely become a guinea pig for the first batch of air lockers to come in. Like I tell my customers, the lockers just help you get stuck farther down the trail, it's the winch that helps you get home!

The only problem is finding a recovery point suitable for a 13k lb truck mired up to the axles in thick VA clay... maybe the D955?

 

[ida34]

When driving them in the desert in the First Gulf War I was usually pulling a water buffalo. Kind of like a drag sled in the fine sand. I could get the deuce stuck but I never had a problem backing it out. This backs up what Kenny is talking about. Sometimes the trailer would cock off to one side and I would have to drop it to back the deuce out of the stuck situation. Bottom line, it gets stuck less when moving in reverse since you are not plowing the front end into the ground. Instead you are pulling it out. We also aired the tires down when we left pavement. It takes about 30 minutes to air the tires up or down but it was necessary so we would not get stuck. This is why the Army has went with the CTIS on trucks. I wish we had it when I was in. I am sure everyone who hates CTIS will speak up hear but if you had to sit 30 minutes airing up and down tires in the desert heat you might just change your mind.

 

[rizzo]

I use 15.5/80 R20 XL's and they work well a lot better than stock. but depending how soft and how deep you will sink to the pig no matter what. I think it is worth the trouble to get a wider/taller tire

 

[cranetruck]

.....It takes about 30 minutes to air the tires up or down but it was necessary so we would not get stuck. This is why the Army has went with the CTIS on trucks. I wish we had it when I was in. I am sure everyone who hates CTIS will speak up hear but if you had to sit 30 minutes airing up and down tires in the desert heat you might just change your mind.

The FMTV (5-ton at least) has a 16 CFM compressor vs the 7 CFM for the deuce, so that time should be cut in half....