Deuce white smoke on startup...

[FamousBCB]

Tried to search and the TM... no luck -

A3 Cat 3116 motor. New fuel filter, at any temp the truck is equally hard to start. (0 -100 degrees ambient same issue) Need starter fluid to kick it off then blows white/black (95% white) and doesn't fire on all cylinders until its warm. It starts up 2-3 tries with starter fluid and runs perfect. Thoughts?

 

[davidb56]

Did it start after the filter change, or just gradually? What led up to this crappy fueling issue?

 

[FamousBCB]

Great question I should of been more clear. It gradually began firing harder over the years. I added a new fuel filter with no change in ease of startup.

 

[davidb56]

sounds like its got a fuel leak in one of the lines and is sucking air (loosing prime) or a bad tank pump, and is making the IP pump pull the fuel. Since it clears up after a while. OOPS, its a A3. No tank pump.

 

[98G]

Great question I should of been more clear. It gradually began firing harder over the years. I added a new fuel filter with no change in ease of startup.

Was ether used regularly?

 

[Floridianson]

Believe it was Fuzzytoster had a thread. He took off the line and fitting on the Governor that fed the fuel filter. Behind the fitting was a check valve if I remember.

 

[porkysplace]

Believe it was Fuzzytoster had a thread. He took off the line and fitting on the Governor that fed the secondary fuel filter. Behind the fitting was a check valve if I remember.

Not Fuzzy's but ,

M35a3 fuel problem

I bought a low milage m35a3 from GL that had set around for years. I could not get it to prime and run. I put air in the fuel tank and it would only push fuel up the return. Long story short there is a check valve in the elbow on top of the fuel tank that I did not know about that stuck shut...

www.steelsoldiers.com

Part infoemation : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/m35a3-fuel-tank-check-valve-commercial-option.164774/

Fuzzy's post : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/m35a3-fuel-pump-prime-issue.204215/

 

[Floridianson]

Corrected my post about the secondary fuel filter on the Deuce was thinking about the FMTV's. Been a long time since I have seen / sold mine in the A3. Correct me if I am wrong the 3116 in the Deuce did not have the primary fuel filter with primer ball system but could the Deuce 3116 be up graded to the system in the FMTV's?

 

[FamousBCB]

Thanks for all the excellent replies - I went through all the suggestions step by step. To clarify the truck always starts, but its a pain to do without starter fluid.
My lines fuel/return have no check balls in them or any associated fittings. Lines had residual fuel in them but didn't have any pressure when cracking them open or clear evidence of a check ball (which I later found I do not have) so the lines were nearly empty, Could the issue be the feed line to the IP somebody has deleted the check valve making it harder to prime? Lines are verified to be completely clean. I also checked the filter at the IP and there wasn't one.

My tank has no electric lift pump but appears to have a air line acting as a lift pump?

 

[frank8003]

Tried to search and the TM... no luck -

A3 Cat 3116 motor. New fuel filter, at any temp the truck is equally hard to start. (0 -100 degrees ambient same issue) Need starter fluid to kick it off then blows white/black (95% white) and doesn't fire on all cylinders until its warm. It starts up 2-3 tries with starter fluid and runs perfect. Thoughts?

"starter fluid" and left handed muffler bearing wrenches will not help the root cause, will just destroy engine parts.

 

[98G]

'Starting fluid' used regularly, other than through an on board metering device, has a potential to cause exactly the symptoms described.

 

[FamousBCB]

frank8003 and 98G, Really? Come on. Duh. That's why I'm here trying to figure out what's broken and to replace it.

 

[98G]

frank8003 and 98G, Really? Come on. Duh. That's why I'm here trying to figure out what's broken and to replace it.

If reckless use of starter fluid is the cause of the problems, then the likely mechanisms are -

1) broken rings

2) damage to the pistons between the ring grooves (lands)

3) stuck rings

4) scored cylinder walls

5) bent pushrods

I'm hoping that your problems are unrelated to ether use.

Edit - it was/is unclear to me whether ether from a spray can was used habitually.

 

[charlesmann]

Put an inline elec pump and run a known good fuel line to ip and prime the sys. See if it starts w/o use of stating fluid.

Using starting over the yrs may have already caused engine damage.

 

[FamousBCB]

Going to look into a check valve - Absolutely no reason to believe engine damage has happened at this point. It runs too well with no smoke when warm. Anyone know about what electric pump to use? I see there is one available for a m35a3. I find it weird mine doesn't have one, but just a normal pickup

 

[charlesmann]

Going to look into a check valve - Absolutely no reason to believe engine damage has happened at this point. It runs too well with no smoke when warm. Anyone know about what electric pump to use? I see there is one available for a m35a3. I find it weird mine doesn't have one, but just a normal pickup

I use a 5 gpm pump for my 4bt cummins, but its 12v and got it from napa. I think they offer a 24v as well.

Would the pump you found not work?

 

[FamousBCB]

Update - Found a check valve in my spare parts - didn't fix the problem. I see m35a3's don't have electric pumps and use a mechanical transfer pump... Does it use the air system that's plumbed into the tank as a "pump" ? Could an air leak in that line, therefore not pressurizing the tank, cause a hard start?

 

[charlesmann]

Sucking air can cause hard/no starting and white smoking. I had a similar issue on my 01 5.9 for loosing prime due to the in tank pump failure, and my 03 5.9 was sucking air between the tank and the FASS pump and would roll a cloud of white smoke.


I took my inline pump and bypassed the truck
system, pulling out of a jerry can and both tck cranked and ran just fine.
prior to troubleshooting, i was ready to set fire to both of them. Now that iv diagnosed the issues, fixing them will be easy.

My kubota was starving once the fuel level got to a half tank. Couldnt figure out for a yr what was causing. Plumbing in an extra inline pump helped but wasnt the problem. After dropping the tank with no luck, i pulled the water separator filter housing and found trash in the inlet port, not allowing ample flow once the tank got to half empty.

Using an inline will help a great deal in troubleshooting.

 

[Mullaney]

Update - Found a check valve in my spare parts - didn't fix the problem. I see m35a3's don't have electric pumps and use a mechanical transfer pump... Does it use the air system that's plumbed into the tank as a "pump" ? Could an air leak in that line, therefore not pressurizing the tank, cause a hard start?

.
AND, if pressure in the tank is a possibility (and it shouldn't be) you could pressurize the fuel tank. Air compressor, a blow gun, and a few rags to keep the air in.

PURE LOGIC though says that if you added a check valve to your fuel line AND if you have something that is pushing fuel beyond that check valve - you have some other problem.

 

[glcaines]

You need to talk to people that have an M35A3. A properly functioning Cat 3116 engine in an A3 rarely turns over more than 1 - 2 revolutions before starting except in very cold weather. You have a very simple problem that is common with A3 deuces. There is a check valve located in the fittings directly on top of the fuel tank. It is very common for trash from the tank to partially or even completely clog this check valve. You need to remove the fittings and clean the check valve. I blow the check valve out with compressed air. This is a very easy task and only takes a few minutes. When you remove the fittings, be very careful to not overstress the fittings as they can easily break. However, you also need to make sure your tank doesn't have trash in it. After cleaning my check valve several times over the years, I finally drained the tank and pressure washed the inside with soap and water. I then rinsed with clean water and finally rinsed twice with 90% isopropyl alcohol in a garden sprayer and drying with a hair dryer to make sure I got all the water out. After I cleaned the tank, I haven't had a problem since. However, I do keep two crescent wrenches in my A3 just in case I need to clean the check valve on the road.