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Double-check my troubleshooting 003a

Crawdaddy

Member
444
4
18
Location
Louisiana
It's been a long time I've been on-and-off troubleshooting why the 003 I bought from GL doesn't run and I've never seen run. A friend of mine and I have gone through the troubleshooting in the TMs and think we have come up with a solution as to why it doesn't run.

We checked the air system and found there to be some rust in the intake pipe, so I took a metal brush and cleaned up all the loose rust I could get to in the pipe. So, that's clean.

We then went through the fuel system. We pulled the bottom caps off the fuel pumps and cleaned the magnets and filter elements in the pumps, then moved on to the strainer and both filters. Filters got replaced. We then purged the system of air up to the second filter can. When moving the master switch to prime and run, the pump clicked very fast while it filled the cans with fuel again, then slowed down to 1-2 clicks per second and fuel could be heard draining back into the tank.

I previously pulled the pump and found it to be seized both in rotation with the ring gear and also in the plunging motion. My friend soaked it in Varsol while I was at work one day despite my explicit instructions not to, but, it freed up the pump it seemed. We then timed it per the TM by lining up the PC mark on cylinder 1 and installing the pump with the back of a 1/8" drill bit in the timing lock hole on the pump.

We also pulled the injectors and found the retaining brackets to only be hand-tight holding the injectors in their bores. All were soaked in diesel and could only get the heatsink off the injector for cylinder 1. We found a crack in the heatsink for cylinder 4's heatsink and the end of the heatsink is cocked at an angle. So, we found a problem and determined replacing at least the injector and heatsink for cylinder 4 would be prudent. After cleaning up the injectors with diesel, they got reinstalled in their bores and tightened down. So, I need to still get at least 1 injector and heatsink for #4.

Despite knowing about the injector issue, they were reinstalled so we could do a compression test. We did not have an appropriate adapter to test compression via the injector hole or glow plug hole, so we used one of those blow-tip looking adapters used with gasoline engines that you simply jam in the spark plug hole and hold tight. We got around 180-250 psi in the cylinders, but I claim there were issues with the reading thanks to the lack of a proper adapter and not being able to follow step 1 of the compression test in the TM which reads "RUN ENGINE TO WARM UP". How am I supposed to run the engine first if the engine doesn't run? Anyways, I think had I had the right tools and been able to first run the engine, compression would read within an acceptable range.

Proceeding along, we hooked all the fuel lines back up and attempted to prime the injector lines. I pulled the delivery valve spring and we barred the engine over slowly with the injector lines cracked. We got some fuel out of injector lines 3 and 4, but not 1 and 2. Hmm, sounds bad. I reinstalled the delivery valve spring and we attempted to turn the engine over. Nothing. For kicks, we loosened the injector lines and spun the motor with the starter more. No fuel came out of any of the lines. So, I think I have a bad injector pump.

We also double-checked to make sure the glow plugs and preheaters were getting nice and warm and they were. The ambient temperature outside was also in the mid-80s, so there should have been no lack of heat to get the engine started.

So, in summary, it appears I need at least 1 injector and heatsink and a new injector pump. Did I follow a good troubleshooting process and come up with a reasonable diagnosis? I'd hate to throw such expensive parts at this genset just to find I didn't diagnose the issue properly. Thanks for any help I can get.
 

jbk

Member
404
5
16
Location
livingston la.
sounds like the pump to me. i ve had stopped up fuel lines and check valves, but sounds like you have fuel to the pump. ive used varsel before and it will swell rubber if left in long enough. theirs a fellow on ebsy right now with reman. pumps for 002 and 003 buy it now $250.00 pretty cheap no button.
 

derf

Member
926
13
18
Location
LA
You should buy mine. You could probably recoup most of the cost by selling the extra parts when you get one going. Mine runs but I haven't cleaned the fuel tank or made power, yet.
I may start working on it again soon, though.

 

Crawdaddy

Member
444
4
18
Location
Louisiana
LuckyDog, rebuilding the pump is an option, and I do like the prices to rebuild, but I don't have the specialized tools to rebuild it and the instructions in the TM seem a little scary to me.

derf, I'd love to buy your set, but for the amount you're currently asking, it's still more cost-effective to keep trying to fix mine. Maybe I can get this one running soon and then have a reason to take yours off your hands.
 

derf

Member
926
13
18
Location
LA
Yeah, I need to get off my butt and get it working, anyway.
Storm season is coming around soon enough.

 

LuckyDog

Member
394
11
18
Location
Freedom, NH
LuckyDog, rebuilding the pump is an option, and I do like the prices to rebuild, but I don't have the specialized tools to rebuild it and the instructions in the TM seem a little scary to me.
Yea, I thought the same. 'til I done it.

No special tools were required. (Other than a torque wrench) Have a second person to help with the "Jesus Clip". Search the forum for "Jesus Clip". It is a little clip that holds the timing button in. (You could just order a spare when you order the rebuild kit.)

Between the TM and the AMBAC parts diagram, it REALLY is easy.
 

Crawdaddy

Member
444
4
18
Location
Louisiana
I appreciate the words of encouragement, but I think I'm going to get a professionaly rebuilt one just so I can positively eliminate that as a potential failure. While waiting for the new one to come in, I may try to take mine apart and see what's going on. If I see something obviously broken like the guide, I can replace it and the gaskets and either hold onto the pump for a spare or resell it later. Thanks for the tip on the Jesus clip. I've come across it before tinkering with the pump the first time, and luckily didn't lose it.
 

LuckyDog

Member
394
11
18
Location
Freedom, NH
Ok,

Did you read up on how to select a new timing button? The Rebuilt one will most likely not come with a button. (Or the button it comes with maybe wrong) And chances are your old one won't be correct.

It is really nice that working on these is so simple. Troubleshooting can be a bear, but the actual wrenching ain't so bad.

YMMV.
 

Crawdaddy

Member
444
4
18
Location
Louisiana
I did know I was almost certainly going to need a new button. William at Delk's told me to just throw my existing one on and it'll work, but I know that's not correct. I will use my existing button to flow-time the new pump using timing method 2 in the TM. Sucks that buttons on these pumps are in the $100 range from Ambac, but I figure I'm still way ahead cost-wise compared to a good Pramac or comparable genset from Home Depot that's only half the rating.
 

derf

Member
926
13
18
Location
LA
I don't think you can compare any generator sold at Home Depot to an MEP-003A.
I may be wrong but I don't think the majority of Home Depot gens ever make it past 1000 hours, even if maintained correctly.
The 3k Pramac Diesel gen Home Depot sells is nice, Yanmar powered, and cost $3000.
Pramacs are good, in general, use Honda or Yanmar power, and are the elite of the portables available at Home Depot but are still not nearly the industrial/military quality of the MEPs.
 

Crawdaddy

Member
444
4
18
Location
Louisiana
After a lot of time not having time to work on the set and time to get parts (thanks Storeman!), I got a chance to start tearing the set back down to replace the IP and an injector that had a cracked heatsink that was jammed and probably affected injector operation. Anyway, I found exactly what I thought I'd find: a seized injector pump. The plunger is stuck in, the rotating gear won't rotate without an extreme amount of force, and a throttle arm that won't move.

Unfortunately, I ran out of time tonight, so tommorow I'll retime the engine to the injector pump, double-check the valve lash to get it close enough before I can run it, and give it a shot. Wish me luck!
 

Crawdaddy

Member
444
4
18
Location
Louisiana
Last night I got everything back back together and tried to crank it over....huge failure. I started with a no-fuel issue, and I ended with a no-fuel issue last night. I'm not getting any fuel from the injector pump to the injectors.

I installed and timed the injector pump at the PC mark on the flywheel with the cylinder closest to the blower wheel in the compression cycle (both rockers loose). I locked the pump in place with the back of a 1/8" drill bit and stabbed it into the block. I also adjusted the valve lash on all the valves according to the TM. While doing that, I noticed the exhaust rockers for cylinders 1 and 4 both had a hairline crack at the base of the stud. I re-primed the fuel filters and cranked the engine with no sign of running. Suspicious that I wasn't getting fuel, I loosened the injector lines at the injectors and cranked again. No fuel but a tiny tiny bit came out of line 2; no fuel came out of any other line. The injector pump is a known-good pump from Storeman.

I am at a loss what else it can be. I've been through virtually every other system and part in the engine part of this generator with nothing found. Any ideas?
 

derf

Member
926
13
18
Location
LA
"Hairline crack" may warrant further investigation. Cracked rockers may suggest catastrophic contact between valves and pistons. Have you run this engine before? Generally pistons in 4 cylinder engines work in pairs. In this case 1 and 4 are probably paired and 2 and 3. If you have problems with 1 and 4 rocker arms you may have or have had problems with cam and crank timing. Whatever caused the cracks may have also bent push rods.
I hope this isn't the case and I don't want to sound "doom and gloom" but gens are DRMOd for a reason and if you can't find anything else minor wrong then you may have a bad engine.

 

Crawdaddy

Member
444
4
18
Location
Louisiana
That's what I was afraid of. Those cracks may not have been there when it was DRMO'd. As usual, my grandfather didn't read the manual and did some things without my knowledge, one of things being cranking down the rocker arms to force the valves open and spinning the motor with the starter. So, I probably have a trash top end complete with bent pushrods and valves and cracked rockers.

You still have that set that doesn't make power derf? aua
 

RIrvin

Member
60
2
8
Location
Kirkwood MO
Be sure to double check that the IP is properly (tightly) seated against the engine block. I had this problem and new IP would not pump. Hope that is your problem also.
 

Speddmon

Blind squirrel rehabiltator
Super Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
4,640
28
38
Location
Cambridge, Ohio
Crawdaddy,

You mentioned in an earlier post that you were going to re-use the original button on your new pump to flow time it? Did you do this, or just stick the pump on with the drill bit in the 1/8" hole?

It's possible that you could still have the pump off by one tooth on the gear. But also, you should run through the flow timing method in the TM. That method is much more accurate, and it is possible that the original button could be too thin and not opening up enough to get fuel to your injectors, thus causing your no fuel issue.

I would try the flow timing before I go any farther if I were you.
 
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