Engine ID?

[pwrwagonfire]

Gentlemen! I got a call today telling me of the poor, POOR condition of my current motor in the M37 (some of you may be following my "My New Toy" thread which details my restoration progress.

As luck would have it, I was in contact with a family friend who is also a power wagon fanatic. He gave me the RARE opportunity to to a trade for a good condition, M37 engine.

I included some pics, sorry it was sort of buried this is the best I can do for now! I am 90% certain that this is usable in an M37.... Can I please get some conformation on this? I know most of you here are much more knowledgeable than I on this matter!

The engine appears to be military, but has no military markings on it. Instead, the side has a plate which reads:

Chrysler Industrial Engine
Model: 30/1533/1
Type: 10268

It DOES have the military fuel pump installed, as well as the mountings for a 24volt generator...is this just a factory replacement? Maybe I've just never noticed this plate on mine before. I DO NOT KNOW.


I need an idea on if I can use this thing or not easily by tomorrow, I told the shop I would call them back and let them know if they should expect me to drop this thing off or not.


Thanks in advance!

 

[Oldfart]

OK, one of the differences between the military engines and civilian is the oil fill tube. The stock M37 engines had two studs on a machined boss where the oil fill tube mounts. Civilian engines have a press fit tube that pushes into the block and the area around where it mounts is not machined flat.

I suspect the Chrysler Industrial engine is a 265 cubic inch engine with sodium filled valves. These were widely used in forklifts and some generator sets. The Canadians used a 251 cubic inch version in their production of M37's. These engines are a couple of inches longer than a Dodge 230. Also there are slight differences in thermostat housings, but other than that they look very similar. The intake manifold is different between the civilian versions and military, but the Dodges will bolt across. The Canadian manifolds will bolt across on the 265 Chrysler. Desoto 6 cyl engines look the same as Dodges, but they are different displacements. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[m376x6]

There were so many different flat heads by Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge back then. There were some that ran counterclockwise even. Depending on the cubic inches there were two lengths of blocks. The M37 used the T245 and T245A if I recall correctly. The M37 used the shorter block. But that said, many folks on here have M37's and perhaps M43's that have the longer block engine installed. They would be the source to go to for information on what to expect when installing the longer block engine. The bellhousings should be the same but with an inustrial engine that is no guarantee. There's a much better than even chance your industrial engine will bolt right in. If not, money can make anything happen. Dodge (Chrysler) didn't make any other engine as a replacement for the M37 except the designated engine. One area to watch out for is the oil pump distributor drive setup. They can be interchanged but not mixed up. The offset on the military version was different and if you installed a civilian distributor it would work for a long while generally but wobble like crazy when it ran. Fuel pumps will interchange. Check to see if the dipstick tube is pressed in or if it is threaded in. The military versions were threaded in as I recall. Good luck.

 

[Oldfart]

Chrysler industrial engines use the same bell housing bolt pattern. Canadian M37's were stock with the longer engine. Radiator mounts differently and cowling sheet metal is different. Install offset shaft oil pump to match military distributor. Conversion to longer engine requires front motor mount modifications at least. Fan spacer must be removed and resulting fan clearance is close to radiator. Caution fording as fan catching water can pull it into radiator more so than with stock clearance. More to consider, but can be done.

 

[pwrwagonfire]

Thank you gentlemen! I will look at how to oil fill is attached tomorrow, it seems that this project may be a little more costly than it is worth; maybe I'll just stick with the original engine

 

[Oldfart]

I assume the photos are of the engine you found for a possible replacement. It appears that engine has the military intake manifold with fording attachments. Should have a place for the air cleaner elbow support to bolt. If it does it might be the Canadian engine. Measure your M37 engine and compare it to the Chrysler. If they are the same, no problem. If longer then some modification would be necessary. Still, the tell as to military block or not is the oil fill tube boss with studs to bolt the tube to the block.

 

[pwrwagonfire]

Ok, will do some measuring tomorrow after work! If I remember correctly, it DOES have the air cleaner elbow support on it.

It IS however missing a distributor, which is no big deal I have a good one on the other engine.

The engine has the mounting brackets for a 24v generator which leads me to believe after speaking with you that it perhaps WAS at one point in an M37? Obviously a replacement motor...but maybe it was in one.

Will bring my camera tomorrow too for better pictures

 

[zak]

If this helps here's the Canadian engine in the frame. There is a captured nut inside the front cross member. The "stock" motor mounts are the hole behind the front mount. I think the front engine plate is the same for both motors. The radiator mounts are set a little back on the core. But I think the shroud is the same between the two. Fan hub spacer is out. Manifolds are different. Fuel pump is the same as is the oil pump except the shaft is shorter/longer I can't remember on the distributor.

 

[pwrwagonfire]

Guys, thanks for all the help and thoughts!

Dropped the new engine off at the shop today and they are digging into it. Turns out my old one has 3 bad cylinders, bad rings, blown out head gasket, GAS in the oil ???, and a cracked exhaust manifold.


This replacement is missing the carb, but they are re-building mine and sticking it on, and it has a good exhaust manifold. I will probably have them rebuild the military fuel pump as well.

I will post how everything turns out in my restoration thread!

 

[vtdeucedriver]

I have also noticed that the bolt patern for the crankshaft flywheel is different between the M-37 and the civy engine so dont go mixing them up.

Your old engine that came out of it, just the 3 cylinders and a cracked manifold is all thats wrong???? Rebuild it. You would be suprised on how many M-37s out there no longer have the military block in them.

 

[Oldfart]

If this helps here's the Canadian engine in the frame. There is a captured nut inside the front cross member. The "stock" motor mounts are the hole behind the front mount. I think the front engine plate is the same for both motors. The radiator mounts are set a little back on the core. But I think the shroud is the same between the two. Fan hub spacer is out. Manifolds are different. Fuel pump is the same as is the oil pump except the shaft is shorter/longer I can't remember on the distributor.

It has been so long since my conversion I forgot the distributor shaft length difference. Now that you mention it, I recall hacksawing the shaft and making it the right length by silver soldering a steel tube to make the correct length. Don't remember if I had to lengthen or shorten the shaft. The mod has held up well as I have worn that engine out and rebuilt it again with no distributor problems in that time.