Failed turbo install

[wkbrdngsnw]

My banks turbo install on the cheap has gone completely wrong. Sorry for the long post but I need to vent about bad decisions and incompetent people.

I bought a 1989 C30 for its turbo about a month ago thinking it would be a nice bolt on with very little modification. Not so much, the actual banks kit fits rather well but the exhaust is a nightmare! The crossover wouldn't fit but that was to be expected but it took almost a week of working on it to make it fit and ended up having about 10 welded sections. During the fit up I broke the exhaust manifold bolts and had to weld some bolts to the manifold to get it to work.
I made it so it could drive to a guy I knows Mineke. I dropped it off last Thursday and he said that he would call me that afternoon with an estimate. It wasn't until Monday that he called and it was 150 more then what we originally talked when I dropped it off. But I could understand that if it was something special going on but its really not that hard. My family convinced me that it a muffler shop knew what they were doing. wrong.

I showed up and looked at it and it was horrible. The guy came out and I asked if that was the best he could do. He looked shocked and got the "exhaust guy" who I asked the same question. He said that he had done this for 20 years and offered no help or admission that it was wrong. I think he honestly believes that it is right.

The first thing wrong was that they used the original right side routing and hangers and some how ended up directly underneath the shackle mount and bent down about an inch to clear it. So its almost at the line from the rear tire to bumper, not good for 4x4'ing. It also is very loose and moves a good 4" when you shake it. Then I had told them to put a flange at where it connects to the down pipe so it could be removed for easy access to the injectors down the road. They put that flange behind the tans cross member which makes it useless. On top of that, they welded to my pipe that was there just to drive there and is just tacked together and has a 60 degree bend right there made with a chop saw, smart!!!!! I also asked about glasspacks to just quiet it down a bit, he said that i wouldn't like the sound and said they would handle it. So, they put on what looks to be a restrictive turbo muffler that makes it sound quieter then a Gasser and the turbo doesn't even come close to spinning up like it did on the way over there. Clearly not what I wanted or asked for.

I was in a hurry and just paid him told him that it was wrong and I'll have to fix it myself. I'm just really disappointed at my waste of money. I could have had the banks muffler sent to my door for the same price and I know it would be right. I guess it is a good lesson I just didn't need this right now.

Thanks for listening to me vent, pics will follow when I get a chance

 

[blzrgb]

Stupid muffler shop. It always chaps my ass too when some cracker head mechanic wantabee can't follow instructions past his smoke break. Some people just don't give a dam.

 

[jwaller]

When ever I have had any exhaust work done that I couldn't do I always stay right there with it while the work s done so I get exactly what I want.

 

[niferous]

I've had nothing but trouble with Meineke throughout the years. They often do extremely shoddy half hearted work and charge absorbent amounts of money for it. Your case does not seem different. I would call a local diesel mechanic and ask them who they recommend if anyone. When i had a Dodge 2500 diesel I took it to a local guy that ran his own shop. He fabbed up and installed a complete exhaust system from straight unbent pipe while I waited. Looked and sounded exellent and cost less than if I had bought a Banks system. Offroad shops may be able to help you as well.

 

[panzerwillie]

to bad you don't ive in south florida i would have don it for you and you still be smiling, my brother just got a M1008 we may be doing a turbo in the future good luck with your delema

 

[JohnFire]

the shop that did my banks install had never done one and estimated $900, ended at $2500 for the install plus the $2500 that I had paid for the kit. Hope that makes you feel better. I was out of the country when I had it installed so I couldn't do any of the work myself.

 

[wkbrdngsnw]

My struggle continues, I didn't get a chance to finish mounting the CDR and it was just flopping around. Today I went for a test drive and the hose kinked and that made oil start spewing out the rear main. Tried it again this afternoon and it seams to have slowed down but it looks like a rear main seal is in my future. I just can't win at this. I took a totally reliable truck and made it completely useless and to top it off its supposed to start snowing this week and I'm going to be stuck unintentionally drifting my hot rodded 69 C-10 around town if the weather man is right.

The more I look at it its not that crappy of work as I originally thought. The actual bending and welding was about average, there just no thought behind it what so ever. I guess they are not used to doing anything but minivans.

I called him today and he said to drive all the way back over there to talk about it, not like that will do any good. And I am mistaken it is a chambered muffler "made for a diesel," but it doesn't perform like one. I'm going to have to find a boost gauge to prove my hunch that the boost builds slower at WOT. It goes faster if I let it roll then gradually get into it but not that much faster then the truck in stock form.

The picture of the rusty pipe is part of the pipe I made just to drive it over there. its amazing how a piece of rusty pipe cut on a chop saw and welded back together looks like a down pipe to weld a "high performance exhaust" to. The rest of the pipe looks really bad because I was filling a 1/4" gap with a MIG, but I couldn't get a good picture of that since its tucked up by the block. The lower part was done with the TIG since I had ran out of MIG gas by that point and doesn't look as bad. Of course they must have thought since it was TIG'd it has to be a high performance down pipe. That's probably where the confusion about the down pipe came from.

I also had to get under there today and replace those 3" long bolts at the flange so latter on when they get rusty I don't have to unthread it through 2" of rust.

 

[12vctd]

im curious on the crossover pipe, I have never bolted a banks to a m1009 but i did a install on a 2500 sub and a k5 blazer civy model, on both the supplied banks crossover fit. what was the original crossover hitting? that muffler looks like a flowmaster or knock off. I think alot of your spooling issues might have to deal with your crossover. But with no fuel turned up on the pump you shouldn't get much above 7psi of boost. but belive me dont give up, the banks kit will really help your truck, especially if your at a higher elevation in CO. All 6.2 should have been turbo.

 

[nhdiesel]

Wow, it sucks that incompetent idiots can do that to someone. It looks like you can weld, you just didn't have the materials you needed. If it were me, I would go on ebay (or a local source if you have a race shop in your area) and get a variety of pre-bent exhaust pieces. I had to do this for the custom downpipe for my Cummins Durango. This is what I came up with, with NO equipment to bend pipe:



The reason for the funky tight bend at the top is because of the lack of room:



It works great! Tapped into the existing 3" performance exhaust. Its amazing what you can do with a chop saw and some bends. I actually only used one 180 degree U-bend, cut exactly as needed, and a new pre-made flange for the turbo end.

Jim

 

[spicergear]

I had some exhaust work that I needed done on Velvet one time on the driver's side. It was pretty tight but I knew a decent muffler shop could get it to work. The shop I wanted to use was too far to get the truck to so I took it to another explained everything to him and he said it would be done the next day. Two weeks later it wasn't done and the guy was avoiding phone calls. I went down and he started telling me that it wouldn't work and referring to parts, like the starter (wrong side fella) that would be in the way. Starter side was already done- I told him that he just wasted two weeks of my time and lied to me about what he was talking about and he knew it. Did all the work myself and found out that with thin stainless steel welding rod a Lincoln 'tomb stone' will weld exhaust pipe at 60amps. That's been years and it's now rusting away...looks like I'll have to do a redo and make it out of stainless this time.

 

[randyscycle]

Working in automotive for 20+ years, I saw a lot of jobs out of Meineke and Midas and those types of places. 90% of the time they were hackneyed cobbled together systems, all thrown together in haste for a quick turnaround and buck. They advertise cheap for a reason, but rarely deliver cheap or quality work. They also used to use really inferior exhaust parts that would rust out in a matter of months. The lifetime warranty they offered on the mufflers was never able to be honored either, because they would weld the muffler into the system, then tell the customer that they couldn't just replace only the muffler. I'm surprised most of those places have stayed in business.

I'm sure there are a few of them that have competent techs working in them, but management always seemed lacking and as a result, turnover was high, so the experience level of the people they did hire was pretty low.

If you own a decent MIG and have some time, like suggested above, go get an assortment of bent tubing, and fab up an exhaust system. It isn't that hard, and takes some time, but you'll be happier with the results. And you know it will fit then.

 

[wkbrdngsnw]

im curious on the crossover pipe, I have never bolted a banks to a m1009 but i did a install on a 2500 sub and a k5 blazer civy model, on both the supplied banks crossover fit. what was the original crossover hitting? that muffler looks like a flowmaster or knock off. I think alot of your spooling issues might have to deal with your crossover. But with no fuel turned up on the pump you shouldn't get much above 7psi of boost. but belive me dont give up, the banks kit will really help your truck, especially if your at a higher elevation in CO. All 6.2 should have been turbo.

It wasn't from a 4x4 so it was hitting the front cross member and I it was close to fitting by the motor mount but I was already going to have to modify it so I made it look like the 4x4 ones I have seen pictures of. The reason I haven't turned up the pump yet is that I got the turbo to lower my EGT's so I need to see what it does like this first. Power is second to not blowing holes in pistons. I didn't go on the highway when I took it to the muffler shop so I don't know what it would do at WOT but it was much quicker to 40. At about 27 you could hear the turbo spin up like a semi and it would go. Now it seams that it doesn't do anything useful till about 40 then it acts somewhat normal.

If it were me, I would go on ebay (or a local source if you have a race shop in your area) and get a variety of pre-bent exhaust pieces.

That was sort of my original plan. It was to cut up the 2wd exhaust and use those bends to take it to in front of the rear wheel and put on a turn down. That didn't work since I didn't have the right bends. That's when I called banks and they wanted $391 delivered to my door but this guy I, now used to know, said he could do it cheaper. Then he has it for almost a week then tells me its about the same price as banks. The only reason I went with him at that point was I kinda wanted to eventually drive my truck and it would have been another week and a half before I could get and install the banks exhaust. Its a good lesson in patience, I'm not going to put getting it done ahead of quality again.

and it just started snowing and my 69 c-10 is out side and the 1009 is in the garage. Its a good thing I'm not one of those people that actually care about keeping cars clean and kept under a cover exept when it 75, sunny, with 0% chance of rain.

 

[crusty]

I'm curious to know if you turned up the injector pump as per Banks instructions?
Without more fuel, more air from the turbo will add no power.

 

[12vctd]

I have never installe a banks kit on a 2wd just saw that you sourced kit from a 2wd.

On another note if your truck is stock (adding turbo to lower EGT's) I dont see how your having EGT issues unless you have a faulty injector or more than one. And timing way off. Do you have a egt gauge installed? with duals almost need to have 2 gauges. I understand your in a thinner air, but I dont see how even with that you would be flirting with 1200 deg egt numbers. Im not doubting you jst wondering if maybe theres more problems.

 

[acesneights1]

Wow. I'm going to put a 6.5 Turbo setup on mine. Luckily there is a custom high end ex shop near me. They did a custom 4 inch mandrel bent for my Diesel Tahoe. would it have been worth it just to order the 4x4 crossover from Banks ?

 

[wkbrdngsnw]

It should be a little more powerful with only the turbo up here since its already over fueling. Although I am going to tune it for as close to 1000 on a hill as I can to give it a margin of safety. It should be relatively close to that number right now.
I had high EGT problems mainly going through the mountains, so its really high elevation and lugging the motor while being underpowered and trying to go up those hills with 3.08 gears. Around town 900 was the most I got when not towing without the turbo. My pyrometer is in the driver side manifold at the collector.

 

[12vctd]

makes sense, I thought you were talking alot higher egts than that, yeah I can see you problem especially if your towing with the 3.08's. You still will probably after turbo install be able to turn a 1/4 turn on your fuel screw for better spool up. Also I suggest reading Oliver Diesel - Engines & Outdoors about timing and maybe borrow the tools, or possibly shop around for a good shop. Belive me its night and day diff. When I was stationed in CO, I owned a 6.2 powered suburban and and with a banks kit and the pump turned up slightly and a good timing curve the truck was very managable in all the elevations, but I also had 4.10 gears with 33's. Egt's never went above 1100 and that was foot in it in OD towing about 5000lbs. Water and meth is (or straight water) another wonderful option for you to combat the egts while towing and still getting the most usable power from your setup. Hopefully you can get your crossover sorted out and get your truck back on the road.

 

[res0wc18]

if you paid 5000 you got taken my friend. I did a complete cummins conversion for less than that, in a boat!

If any one else is having issues like this or other related diesel issues in the NW get in touch with me and well get them sorted out. I work with people that actually know what they are doing.

 

[nhdiesel]

I agree...I have less than that into my Durango Cummins swap, including buying the entire part's truck the engine came from, a warrantied NV4500, new flywheel, clutch, and the rest of the parts. I think at last count we had around $3000 into it.

Some places really screw you just because its a diesel. I know a shop in town gets around $500 to do a Cummins water pump. The pump is under $50 for a good one, and closer to $25 for the cheap ones he uses...and its about the easiest pump I've ever seen to change!

Jim

 

[JohnFire]

It is one thing when you are able to do the work yourself, and another when you have it taken to a shop to have it installed and it is their first one since they work on large diesels primarily. I couldn't have my dad drive the truck all over the state to try and get things done, and from the Kuwaiti desert there wasn't a thing I could do. At the time a large part of the exhaust had just fallen off. I already was going to order a banks for it so that was what I did. The price at that time for the banks kit was $2500. Most shops in my area wanted nothing to do with trying to install it, and the ones that banks recommended were quoting 1500 to install, and were an hour or more drive away. Did it suck when I got home and saw the bill, yep. They were upfront and kept us informed of the problems they were running into, some of which was the IP pump had some age related issues. Even if I was home, I am not sure if I would have been able to do the install. I have no garage, and the city frowns upon someone doing that much work in the street.

It took me about 16 hours to strip the truck of everything I had put on including the turbo when I got rid of it. Most of that time was trying to take the turbo out due to the lousy bolt locations. There was only 1 part I could not get off, and I am not sure how they even had installed that part for the oil return.

Would an engine swap have been cheaper? Maybe, all depends on what price you get it for and how much of the work you can do yourself.

All of these things are lessons we learn some are harder than others.