HMMWV Turret Models?

[Haasino]

Can any of the experts here tell me what the difference is between these two turret models?

Thanks!

 

[Corprin]

Can any of the experts here tell me what the difference is between these two turret models?

Thanks!

Pic one is the older style from the M1025/1026 vehicles. The handle engaged a tapered pin which would drop famously into the holes around the inner ring. This allowed gunners to quickly spin the turret around and drop the handle when their desired position was achieved. After a while, the lower ring would wear out, or sometimes in badly maintained vehicles, start rusting between the holes. This would cause issues in the ring/pin engagement. This type also had a very low pintle mount which had a nasty tendency to suck in M249 links and jam up. The handle was very ergonomic,a nd worked quite well with gloves and such, but if you bumped it wrong on a hill your weapons system could swing down. While not so bad with a M249 or M240, when mounted with a MK19 or M2, your life sucked for a bit. The hatch was a very thin slip of aluminum that bifolded to the side, which would make a TON of noise when you seemed to want to be quiet. They leaked BAD and made life pretty poor when living in your truck for weeks in the field.

Pic two is a later variant, we can call gen-2, we had on our newer M1025/1026's and first M1114's, in the late 90s. the bearings were MUCH better and didn't dry out like the earlier versions causing hideous noises and requiring some brute strength to actually move the thing through the "dead spots" The upper rings were a bit higher and didn't suck in links or rocks/sticks/debris. The turrets were a bit heavier, but they provided better protection from attack from above. These also included the armor hatch cover which flipped up to the rear, and locked into place with two rather large rods. I have personally seen them take direct hits from un-armed RPG rounds and fair just fine. The handle engagement was stayed as the ring lever, but the ergonomics of the unit made it quite awkward to engange and disengage when needed. The engagement ring had FAR less positions than both the early and mid generations, but got gummed up far less, and was easier to make field repairs to. The issue I had was, it was very easy to catch gear/armor/etc on the sharper tabs and tear uniforms or skin. There were many times where I nearly lost fingers reaching back to help my gunner spin the turret on a slope or while driving.

There was a third variant on some of the M1114's which was a big "gear ring" that had teeth about 1/4" wide. The lock was a simple lever which while effective, the ergonomics sucked and seemed to prove awkward to engage/disengage whille on the gun. This lever would engage an aluminum block with matching teeth. This allowed seeming limitless positions for the turret ring, but got gummed up with crap pretty good. One GREAT invention was a small motor assembly they came up with after I left country which would move the turret for the gunner. Brilliant, as my gunner was never able to turn the turret more than a few degrees when we were driving full tilt, if he could get it going the wind off the truck would whip the gun all the way around.

let me, or others know, if you have any other questions.

 

[Hell On Wheels]

Why do you ask?

 

[Haasino]

Excellent writeup, Corprin... I appreciate the detailed descriptions of each model. I was actually thinking the one in the second photo was an earlier model, since the sawtooth locking ring looks less heavy duty than the one in the 1st photo.

Why do you ask?

Because the second photo is the Humvee my company is having refurbished... I noticed the sawtooth ring was different than the ones I'd seen in other photos, and was curious what the difference was between the two. Looks like we lucked out and got a newer model turret... score!

 

[Corprin]

Excellent writeup, Corprin... I appreciate the detailed descriptions of each model. I was actually thinking the one in the second photo was an earlier model, since the sawtooth locking ring looks less heavy duty than the one in the 1st photo.



Because the second photo is the Humvee my company is having refurbished... I noticed the sawtooth ring was different than the ones I'd seen in other photos, and was curious what the difference was between the two. Looks like we lucked out and got a newer model turret... score!

I personally liked the old pin-hole type lock best. The type you have with the open gaps and such are a pain in the arse when you need to flip the lock on/off. If you look closely, you will see that the handle actually pivots down and away from the gunners body, which always seemed to require some odd twisting to get the thing open.

 

[NEIOWA]

What is the molded plastic piece at the forward portion of photo #1? Not in M966 vintage 1986 (which also did not have D ring on the sling seat or a interior light).

 

[Corprin]

What is the molded plastic piece at the forward portion of photo #1? Not in M966 vintage 1986 (which also did not have D ring on the sling seat or a interior light).

Which piece? The tan plastic light on the center brace, or the black "web" on the bottom of the turret?

My 1986 m1025 had a d-ring on the gunner's sling, but no light (that is where our LVOSS trigger was)

 

[Haasino]

The first photo is from an old for-sale ad that was posted on another website... I think the light was installed by the sellers.

 

[Corprin]

Yeah, that light is one from an armored vehicle. Some guys would pilfer them somehow to use them as a dome light. Personally I used the little green light on the squak boxes that we mounted in the same place.

The black webbing piece is metal, and used to provide support for the weapons system mounted just above... ie the TOW.