(Hopefully) New M1078 Owner

[401-J10]

Hey everybody,
I've been on here for years, but never really posted before. I've always wanted an LMTV, and hopefully on Friday I'll be getting a 2003 M1078.

Currently it's not running. I know it has had some engine work, but I'm not 100% on the extent. It's about an hour and a half from where I live, so I'm going to have it towed to my house.

From what I've been told, it was towed to its current location by a wrecker that picked up the back end of the truck, and they removed the front driveshaft. I'm planning on having it towed the same way, but I've got a couple of questions.

1. I saw a note in the TM that a "lift and tow" could damage the frame. Has anyone had any experience with this, or know what the reasoning behind this note is? Anything i should keep an eye out for?

2. Is there anything that locks the steering when the truck is off? I'm sure the steering wheel will need to be kept straight when towing, but I was hoping to be able to manually steer the truck when maneuvering it in my driveway. Is this feasible?

Sorry if these questions have been answered, I did try searching, and thanks in advance for any help!

Evan

 

[Ronmar]

I haven't seen that caution, but I haven't looked for it either Its a pretty significant chassis... You can damage drivetrain components if you do not prepare properly(pulling axles or driveshafts as appropriate to separate the AWD pathways).

I would suspect the towing operatorator will secure the steering wheel for a rear tow. A front tow is more typical, with the rear axles pulled(simple task) but would probably call for a larger wrecker as all the weight is forward...

Good Luck and "Welcome to the party Pal"...

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Not a chance you are dry steering that truck without jacking the front wheels up. The hydraulic system is required when there is weight on the wheels.

The military cautions are related to lifting and towing OFF ROAD. Everything the military does is off road specs. You will be fine on paved surfaces. But it's better to pull all the driveshafts and just flat tow it from the front with a tow-bar and vehicle interconnect cable.

Make sure the reason it's not running is NOT a HEUI system meltdown - which is all too common in the 3126b. If that's the case then you are looking at probably $10k to $15k depending on if you are doing it yourself or paying for it. In any case that's almost an expected cost with the 3126b trucks (1999 to 2004) as they seem exceptionally prone to that failure. If it takes out the injectors - those are $1k each when you can even get them.

I'm at about 75% of the 3126b trucks need a HEUI system replacement before 15k miles. I've seen two melt down around 12k, and one that was closer to 8k. @Lostchain has the only 3136b truck I'm aware of that has it's original HEUI system. But I think he's around 7k miles. Also his truck is exceptionally well maintained and had services performed by the military within a year or two of him acquiring it.

In general I avoid the A1's. A1R with the C7 is the best. A0's are second place - just underpowered. 3126b trucks are way down at the bottom of the list unless they have been through reset or had the HEUI system replaced.

 

[Keith Knight]

My 2003 3126B has 37,000 miles on the original HEUI pump. I’m driving it daily as we are traveling the country in it for the next 2 years nonstop. Just treat the engine with respect. Regular maintenance fix all oil leaks and keep it clean to identify any new leaks. Oil and fuel filter changes regularly with quality oil.

 

[Third From Texas]

"I was hoping to be able to manually steer the truck when maneuvering it in my driveway. Is this feasible?"

Zero chance steering by hand if stationary. But you can manipulate if (although only a very small amount) as it rolls.

I had to (flat tow) push a parts truck back into a very narrow slot and was actually able to make enough tiny corrections going forward and back, but it took a lot of work. Same when I loaded the parts truck onto a trailer. If you can get things lined up for a straight shot, it can be done. But if you're facing curves of any sort it will be a bugger (only possible with the tow vehicle manipulating the direction).

A proper tow bar (for the LMTV) and a freely turning steering wheel...combined with another military truck...and a good deal of time...and you can jink these things around. But know that if the the steering wheel is secured, and you try to turn the truck you will snap the towbar like a twig.

If the engine can be started and the power steering is operating, it'll turn. But again, know that if you oppose the natural track Heavy Truck will snap your towbar. Heavy truck is boss...

 

[GeneralDisorder]

My 2003 3126B has 37,000 miles on the original HEUI pump. I’m driving it daily as we are traveling the country in it for the next 2 years nonstop. Just treat the engine with respect. Regular maintenance fix all oil leaks and keep it clean to identify any new leaks. Oil and fuel filter changes regularly with quality oil.

Are you entirely positive that your truck never had an engine swap or the HEUI system serviced while the Army owned it?

I feel like the failures are related to sitting and age. BUT I totally tore down a 3126 HEUI pump and could not find ANY smoking gun. They don't really have seals in them to go bad. But the 3126b pump is TINY inside and basically all yellow metals (very soft). Unlike the C7 pump which I have seen a video of one being rebuilt and it seemed much more robustly designed. Also CAT did a bunch of rework over the last 20 years of C7 production which included an updated HEUI pump oil feed with an inline cartridge filter. Unfortunately it doesn't fit the 3126 and CAT I don't believe really cares since that engine was only produced for 6 years and is ancient history to them. They still make the C7. Well over 20 years of production and improvement have gone into it. And it's being used in the FMTV A2. I see no advantages to buying a truck at this stage with a long out of production engine who's injection system teething problems were only fully addressed by producing a new variant that is not backwards compatible in terms of parts.

I have another 2001 3216b to do the HEUI system on in the next couple weeks. That makes three trucks I will have done - all with under ~12k miles. That's piss poor odds and makes me never want to own one. The risk of an unknown example is too great unless the truck currently seems to run fine AND it's cheap AF.

 

[Keith Knight]

Absolutely positive never engine swap or HEUI pump replacement. I purchased it with only 3,500 miles on it and personally picked it up from an Air Force base in Florida. I’ve been very intimate with the engine and pay close attention to any bolts or nuts that have had a wrench put on them….you can tell. I personally even swapped the transmission myself so I would now if the engine had been replaced.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Absolutely positive never engine swap or HEUI pump replacement. I purchased it with only 3,500 miles on it and personally picked it up from an Air Force base in Florida. I’ve been very intimate with the engine and pay close attention to any bolts or nuts that have had a wrench put on them….you can tell. I personally even swapped the transmission myself so I would now if the engine had been replaced.

Well that's excellent. You got the only good one I'm aware of.

 

[401-J10]

I really appreciate the replies. I'm not sure what to think of the 3126b at this point. I've seen plenty of good and bad opinions of it. The Heui system is definitely the weak point, but it seems like it can be upgraded to be pretty reliable if the rest of the engine is in good shape. Now, if the Heui pump goes bad, it can damage the injectors, but also the rest of the engine, correct? How does it do this? Is it just from debris getting into the cylinders from the injectors? Or is there more to it?

I'm trying to get more info on the engine I'm looking at, but I'm afraid I may not really know what I'm getting until I get it, if I do in fact buy it. Are there any easy ways to test the pump/injectors off the engine?

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I really appreciate the replies. I'm not sure what to think of the 3126b at this point. I've seen plenty of good and bad opinions of it. The Heui system is definitely the weak point, but it seems like it can be upgraded to be pretty reliable if the rest of the engine is in good shape. Now, if the Heui pump goes bad, it can damage the injectors, but also the rest of the engine, correct? How does it do this? Is it just from debris getting into the cylinders from the injectors? Or is there more to it?

I'm trying to get more info on the engine I'm looking at, but I'm afraid I may not really know what I'm getting until I get it, if I do in fact buy it. Are there any easy ways to test the pump/injectors off the engine?

Damage to the engine (as opposed to the fuel system on the engine) is rare. BUT also these engine had pretty frequent problems with the main oil pumps. That issue is made significantly worse in the FMTV (like 10x worse) due to these running at redline at 62 mph. Review this video and note that the engine has about 90k miles on it in an RV that is running it at half the RPM (1450 or so) at cruise for best economy.

The FMTV is significantly over geared and thus spins these engine at their limit (2600 rpm) which exposes problems and design deficiencies significantly sooner. You can't really compare a 3126 used in a commercial or marine application in terms of reliability trends since the operating conditions differ so much. Also keep in mind that none of this was of paramount concern to the Army who is coming from a totally different world view. Their maximum expected lifespan in military service is 35k miles. And uncle sugar isn't that concerned about them breaking - they are used to that and will just use it as a bargaining chip in the next contract and the repairs are good training. The FMTV, even with that engine, was still MUCH more reliable than anything they have ever purchased. And not by a little bit. The FMTV series vehicles were awarded by the military for being the most reliable thing they have ever purchased on wheels. Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) was improved by like 200% between the A0 and the A1. Sounds great on paper but the civilian and commercial markets have radically different expectations.

If the HEUI pump is shot you are looking at about $3k-$5k in parts. Many hours of labor. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 hours if you take the time to address the deficiencies. If it also needs injectors that's going to add another $6k or so in parts and even more labor. And you best get the IFS kit at the same time to prevent that $6k injector investment from being contaminated by the next pump failure..... Another $1100 plus custom lines and mounting. Sadly there is not a pre-filter designed for the 3126 like CAT designed for the C7 (and is supplied with all their HEUI pump/injector kits).

And IMHO you HAVE TO REPLACE the main oil pump (only another $1400 plus gaskets) because it's probably shot, you can't inspect it, and if it's making metal it will find it's way into the HEUI system and we start right back at square one. And that is kind of a bugger of a job also - in particular the transmission cooler support bracket will have your swearing and throwing tools unless you do it with the air compressor and HEUI pump removed.

Then there's the warped oil cooler plate and/or superceded gaskets to prevent unfiltered oil from bypassing the filter..... That's on the other side of the engine so there's a bunch more labor that doesn't cross over with the rest of the job.

And after you fix it..... Well there is no upgraded HEUI pump and I would be terrified to buy one that didn't come directly from CAT..... And with the injector situation.... They are expensive and no one can even find new ones. Even CAT only has reman pumps and injectors. How long will these be available? They are being chewed up in service and numbers are dwindling every day. The military will just throw the truck away when/if CAT won't support it. Hell the A0's already have a $0 MEL (Maintenance Expenditure Limit) and the early A1's are on the chopping block soon. A2 roll out is well underway and the soft cab non-armored trucks are just junk they have laying around that can't be sent to a modern war. It's a very expensive, not that useful piece of equipment to them that is now 25+ years old.

 

[Ronmar]

General hit on the biggest Achilles heel of these trucks, their gearing means highway speed = max governed engine RPM. Nobody operates road vehicles like this... The driveshafts are steep and large/heavy, and spin way outside what is normally acceptable on the angle/RPM chart. If you are going to play this game, the driveshafts must also be perfect and you should really Eco-hub the truck(removes the 2:1 hub reduction). This will halv all the RPMs, bring you closer to engine peak torque RPM and bring the driveshaft back into the acceptable RPM range for their angle at highway speed...

 

[MatthewWBailey]

in particular the transmission cooler support bracket will have your swearing and throwing tools unless you do it with the air compressor and HEUI pump removed

This is shocking. When I did this, I remained calm and unemotional for the many hours of disassembly time for a single bolt. No swearing was heard at all, but the radio volume was at 10.

General Thread Food for thought. I purchased an '09 govt rebuilt 3126b complete crate engine, with ECM (from an FMTV) to serve as spare parts. $6k plus shipping but it's already provided a new air compressor, new PS pump and new Atmospheric sensor, so my net cost is down to $3350 and there's still a HEUI and new injectors on it. So that's one way to prep for breakdowns.

 

[Keith Knight]

I’m looking for a crashed LMTV A1 to purchase for the same reason. Should have done this years ago. Never thought an alternator would cost more than a vehicle !!!

 

[401-J10]

Well I feel like I'm getting really conflicting opinions now - @GeneralDisorder is trying to talk me out of the truck, while @MatthewWBailey and @Keith Knight are telling me to go ahead and get 2 .

I already had a rough time with the other half telling her I was getting one truck, I can't bring home TWO (well not initially atleast).

But in all seriousness, @GeneralDisorder , I do really appreciate the time you've put into your replies. I feel like this has been mentioned in a couple of other threads, but if I do end up getting the truck and the engine is a dud, is it better to replace it with the C7? Do you know what obstacles there would be swapping the C7 versus another 3126b?

 

[GeneralDisorder]

C7 replacement is absolutely possible and not even that hard. The chassis harness connector is the same so the C7 should basically just bolt in and run with some plumbing changes, etc.

But this truck doesn't run - how are you to know the condition of the transmission? This thing better be REALLY cheap cause if you have a chassis with a cracked engine block - some 3126's are on a list for being prone to that failure also and the only recourse is to throw the block away - or a transmission that's been damaged by a driveshaft failure, etc.

Can you physically inspect the truck or pay a qualified individual such as someone from this forum to inspect the truck? You could be buying a really expensive sack of turds.

If you are fine with buying a turd sandwich and the potential costs involved why not just find a C7 A1R truck and get ALL the benefits of the newest chassis like the WTEC-IV transmission, slide out battery tray, 260A alternator, modular power distribution, CANBUS gauges (radically simplified dash wiring), extensible pintle hitch, Trimark paddle door handles, better cab grab handles, better seats (still junk but better junk), better cab insulation...... shall I go on?

I mean sure - buy an turdwich that doesn't run and never had the best parts and lifetime enhancements of the platform and is on the verge of losing support for it's most expensive mechanical component - you see how it sounds when I put it in detailed terms?

C7 trucks will be supported for another 20 years. You see the C7 A1R trucks share 90% electrical, pneumatic, and running gear with the A1P2, and the same drivetrain as both the A1P2 and the new A2. So you can be ABSOLUTELY sure that Cat will be required by the federal government to support your truck and it also ensures a rich supply of surplus parts for 20% of retail long into my retirement. Isn't that the draw to buy these trucks in the first place? The amazing deal you are getting after the Army took the depreciation in the shorts? I see no reason not to apply that to the parts to maintain it.

The quality remains long after the price is forgotten.

 

[Keith Knight]

When I purchased mine it had all fluids drained and no batteries! Got it home and filled all the fluids out new batteries in it found a loose connection on the starter relay and she cranked up and ran. Not saying I haven’t had other issues but such as replacing the transmission and replacing the ECM. but she runs great now. But as you can see why if you can get a parts truck for a really good price it might be worth it. We are working with antique vehicles so maintenance is expected.

 

[401-J10]

Well, while I'm no diesel mechanic, I did see the truck in person. It looked like it had been taken care of. No rust, tires were newer. I didn't see any external physical damage to anything.

My thought process with this truck was that it was similar in price to what trucks are going for on the government liquidation site, but it has good tires, no missing or physically damaged pieces from a forklift, and I wouldn't have to pay a huge shipping cost or deal with titling it. I don't know about the engine or transmission, but that would be the same for a government liquidation truck. So I felt like I'd be thousands of dollars ahead. If my logic is flawed, please tell me.

I really hadn't looked into the A1R trucks that much, so they're 2006+? What are they going for right now? Are there any sources besides the government liquidation site or one of the military vehicle companies?

Thanks

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Well, while I'm no diesel mechanic, I did see the truck in person. It looked like it had been taken care of. No rust, tires were newer. I didn't see any external physical damage to anything.

My thought process with this truck was that it was similar in price to what trucks are going for on the government liquidation site, but it has good tires, no missing or physically damaged pieces from a forklift, and I wouldn't have to pay a huge shipping cost or deal with titling it. I don't know about the engine or transmission, but that would be the same for a government liquidation truck. So I felt like I'd be thousands of dollars ahead. If my logic is flawed, please tell me.

I really hadn't looked into the A1R trucks that much, so they're 2006+? What are they going for right now? Are there any sources besides the government liquidation site or one of the military vehicle companies?

Thanks

@aw113sgte has said numerous time and I agree with it, This is a hobby and an expensive one.

there's an A1R on eBay for 38k but it's a 6x6 and looks a little beat up. FYI for reference

2008 BAE Systems M1083A1 5 Ton 6x6 Military Cargo Truck | eBay

Truck is in great shape, Please feel free to come inspect and drive it as you would like. Please contact for more pictures or videos of truck running and driving 000000318348308700000

www.ebay.com

 

[Keith Knight]

Expensive in perspective, doing all the mechanical work my self everything I’ve invested into the core truck about $20,000 over a nine year period. Compared to a new ford 5,500….Cheap!
Just expect to invest money into it, if you’re going to keep it long term.

 

[401-J10]

Expensive in perspective, doing all the mechanical work my self everything I’ve invested into the core truck about $20,000 over a nine year period. Compared to a new ford 5,500….Cheap!
Just expect to invest money into it, if you’re going to keep it long term.

Well, that was my other piece of reasoning - even if I had to end up putting $20k into it, it'd still be significantly cheaper than even a newer half ton pickup. And honestly, all the newer pickups seem like they have some pretty significant issues.

But I ended up passing on the truck.