I’m stumped on MEP-002A, need help

[storeman]

Guys,

The good news is that three of the 002A units bought last fall have been restored to operational status and have sold in the past 3 weeks. Bad news is the fourth 002A unit has me perplexed.

I’ve only been at the generator rescue task for the past 2 years and would appreciate some help from the real experts. Have searched. Have read the TMs.

Situation:

Black smoke. Runs for 30 seconds or so then dies. Fuel cut-off solenoid is not activating so it is not a safety switch. Today I got it to run about 2 minutes during which black smoke went to white and almost went clear before I shut it off to replace the governor access door to prevent overheating. Not more than 30 seconds since then. When it starts at max throttle, it pegs the freq meter and registers 240 on the volt meter, then slowly dies like it is starving for fuel. Fuel cut-off solenoid is not activating, so is not causing the problem.

Today:
a. Traced the fuel backwards, replaced the check valve with a known good one, cleaned fuel pumps (no crud noted as I also did that last fall and both function). Fuel return to the tank is fine.
b. Replaced both injectors and the IP with known good ones.
c. Checked air supply……filter new.
d. Adjusted valves.
e. There is no blow-by and head gasket appears good.

Where to from here?
a. SS member “NJtoolnut” machined a superb glow-plug hole compression tester tool which I have yet to buy a gauge for. You all might consider contacting him. $20 is cheap! Guess I’ll buy a pressure gauge and compression test is next, if I can get the glow plugs out.
b. Beyond that, I have to consider replacing the engine with one of the two Kuwait-overhauled units here or replacing the gen-head (somehow I doubt the gen-head could be causing the problem, but that is the end of the MEP I know nothing about. Both are very labor-intensive.
c. Anyone got any ideas? HELP!

Thanks,
Jerry

P.S. Pat and I are off to Alaska Sunday on our first cruise ever, ...our top bucket list item. Back on the 18th.

 

[Munchies]

Run your fuel supply line from the check valve connection, and the return line into a glass jar. Any air ? Looking for tiny bubbles. time it and full the jar. Do the same and compare to another for fuel volume

 

[storeman]

Munchies,
If I understand correctly, you are saying disconnect the line into the IP and fill a jar from it while timing. Then reconnect that line and fill a jar from the return line, also timing it.

Where is air going to enter the equation except from the IP fill line?

Am willing to try anything but I have bled to the injectors. What will this test tell me?
Jerry

 

[Munchies]

The goal is make a loop from the draw straw in the tank to the end of the return line. Observing what is normally hidden.
Air could be entering from any hose, fitting, gasket, anywhere.

 

[Munchies]

I misspoke. I will clarify in a bit. I have a crying baby on me

 

[Grega]

Iinstall a clear glass fuel filter before the IP and you may be able to see if you are getting bubbles or starving for fuel.

 

[carey clarkson]

I know you stated that the injectors are known good ones however, even good Injectors leak down if something as small as a grain of sand gets in there. That would explain the build up of fuel and the black smoke during start. That said they could also be clogged with small to the point where they won't close yet the jets won't spray either making the set starve for fuel once the excess fuel is burned off. Do you have a "POP" tester for injectors? Just a thought.

 

[storeman]

Yes I have a pop tester and will retest injectors if the air leak testing doesn't pan out. Thanks to all.
Jerry

 

[storeman]

UPDATE:

Smart folks here. I got tunnel vision focusing on air leak. Harleyd315 (Chris)suggested a brilliant way to eliminate air as a problem. I modified his suggestion a bit but still rigged fuel supply to a known good generator It still produced same results. I was going nuts chasing an air leak that didn't exist. Good troubleshooting advice Chris. Thanks.

carey clarkson correctly assessed that a tested injector could still be the problem but I would not have believed it unless air leak could be eliminated. Replaced injector after symptoms persisted with change of fuel source (used one of those re-manufactured ones in the classifieds). Bottomline: the beast is alive! Thanks Carey.

Pics of the Jerry-rigged setup below. I used a new 50' 3/8" air tool hose which has been in the shop for years, and a few spare fittings. Am going to keep this rig and add a female air fitting to my 230 gallon remote heating oil tank to work with both my generators by also adding air fittings to the aux fuel feed on both my units. Much simpler than plumbing. One idea spawned another. Again thanks to all.

Now I have another unit ready to sell when we get back from Alaska!
Jerry

 

[carey clarkson]

Anytime Jerry. I owe you a big thanks for shipping the percent load current meter out so quick. Have fun in Alaska!

 

[Harleyd315]

Glad it worked out for you Jerry!! Have fun on your trip!!

 

[PJDiesel]

(still fooling with mine).

Interestingly, almost like you,I have 4 running great and only 1 that is a problem child.

Which injector was the bad one out of yours? I have one running barely at 100*, the other stays steadily about 35* higher....

 

[NJ_Toolnut]

Hi Jerry,

+1 on smart folks here, glad you found the problem. I hope you and Pat had a good time in Alaska. Thanks for mentioning my glow plug hole compression testing adapters!

Stan

 

[storeman]

FYI:
Today I tried adjusting both sets of valves from the "A", as LUCKY DOG contemplated. Was frustrated enough to throw caution to then wind. Unit ran. Got black smoke instead of blue/white but bogged under 1600 watts load.

Removed the 002A's head, tore it down, cleaned the valves (one had a slight stickiness to it), checked out the cylinders (clean and smooth) and put 1/8" marvel mystery oil in each. Had to use a towel to get the oil out 3 hours later.

Reassembled with new head gasket, adjusted valves per TM, got lots of white smoke again.

Am waiting on gauge, etc to be able to use Stan's fantastic adapter. Meanwhile, since I made my own injector tester, sometime in the next couple of days, I'll adjust the injectors. I'm running out of ideas and tools at this point. It will run indefinitely smoking away with about 30% power.
Jerry

 

[storeman]

Major update on this unit. Lots of progress but a few steps backward which still have me stumped

While waiting for the gauge and fittings to put NJTOOLNUT's glow-plug compression testing tool to full intended use, I changed out the valves, and finally switched heads, all to no avail. Obviously a compression problem even thought the cylinders were clean. So, I decided to change out the engine with one of the overhauled 002a engines from GL.

Good news is the engine runs like a top and does not smoke.

Bad news is I can't get the starter to engage without jumping the A3 relay. I have changed the relay out three times. Same results. Starter worked fine before I changed the engine. Yes the engine is grounded. Yes the batteries are being charged. Yes I have also changed out the starter. I've even replaced all of the wiring harnesses from the control box to the engine.

Today I took a master switch from another unit and stripped it to replace the switch on the unit giving trouble. It is a PITA and, before doing that, thought I'd ask for advice. When I turn the switch to start the fuel cutt-off solenoid activates as it should but no starter activity. If I jump the posts on A3 the unit starts and runs well. Shuts down as it should. I've replaced A3 three times with relays from other scrap units. Hard to believe that all 3 are bad. I do not know how to test this relay.

No obvious shorts. All wires tight. Been messing with this unit for 2 months.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Jerry

 

[jeepin]

Jerry have you popped the cover on the starter lockout and checked that? (Page 4-32 of the -12 manual)

 

[Harleyd315]

Like jeepin said check the starter lockout switch, disconect the cannon plug by the oil fill and jump it out with a cotter pin or paper clip. If the unit then fires up, pop the cover and check the switch. I had a few that all I had to do was run some emery cloth thru the contacts and they worked fine after that.

 

[storeman]

I guess I have tunnel vision. Should have thought of that first. Will do. Thanks.
Jerry

 

[storeman]

Jeepin, Harley,
You were right. I should have thought of it from the outset, but it has been several units since I had this problem and I just overlooked it.
Thanks.
Jerry