LDS 465 turbo on LDT motor?

[Camoclad]

Hi, have 71 AMG A2 with LDT 1-d. Friend recently gave me a turbo off 5 ton tractor ( LDS 465) Can I Put this larger turbo on my engine to gain torque and HP without screwing up my motor. Will I have to turn up injector pump or can I leave it alone? Any help would be greatly appreciated Thanks

 

[gimpyrobb]

Post pics. The LDS original turbo might put too much air in, but most of the LDS turbos are the same as the LDT turbos.

 

[BKubu]

I am not sure that it will add power, but it should. I do know that it will work fine, though. Kenny's old M275A2 that he got from me had a 5 ton turbo on it...and that was a screamer!

 

[Hammer]

A turbo can only push as much air as dictated by the fuel put into the motor.

Besides, doesn't the bigger turbo from the LDS have a wastegate? If so, set to a safe boost level and enjoy.

 

[5tonpuller]

Hi, have 71 AMG A2 with LDT 1-d. Friend recently gave me a turbo off 5 ton tractor ( LDS 465) Can I Put this larger turbo on my engine to gain torque and HP without screwing up my motor. Will I have to turn up injector pump or can I leave it alone? Any help would be greatly appreciated Thanks

Hi there and welcome.
I am not sure about the multi's , But I do know that there is a difference between a turbo motor and a non turbo motor. On some of the cams, heads and the pistons are all set up different. Bigger injectors.
Just my $0.05 worth.

 

[Camoclad]

I cant post pics put this turbo is definately larger. It looks like a large version of the whistler type turbo and has a protrusion towards the bottom of the the exhaust side that points towards the rear of the truck. It has a "cap" held on by 4 bolts. I know very little about turbos aside from what they do. I know what a waste gate does but I don't know what it looks like or how to adjust it. I am mechanically inclined but totally new to diesel engines or engines of this size.

 

[TaylorTradingCo]

motor swap

I stick strictly to Deuces so I know very little about the 5 ton motors.

According to some of the stat sheets I have seen there is very little difference in HP between the two, but I have heard that the bigger ones have more torque.

I saw a 5 ton motor listed on auction one time that said it was a 5 ton motor converted to fit in a Deuce. If I remember correctly it said the oilpan was reversed and that the starter was on the other side in order to clear something.

So it sounds like it can definitely be done and would be an improvement.

I think you should definately do it and sell me your old puny weak little Deuce motor.

Derek Taylor

 

[FMJ]

I am not sure about the multi's , But I do know that there is a difference between a turbo motor and a non turbo motor. On some of the cams, heads and the pistons are all set up different. Bigger injectors.
Just my $0.05 worth.

Can you elaborate?,

I have a couple of LD 465's I'm going to Turbo. I've been told the motors are the same...

I Apologise for the hijack

 

[Stretch44875]

Only difference I know of is the timing, and maybe fuel settings on the pump. When you get into the LDS motors that are in 5-tons, then the internals are different.

Dennis

 

[Djfreema]

If you throw the bigger 5 ton turbo on I think you will also need the elbow that connects the turbo to the intake manifold to match the diameter and to make the flame heater fit correctly with the bigger turbo. The outlet of the turbo is larger than the standard duece turbo. I think they flow more air which will help keep egt's down if you have the pump turned up. I would eventually like to put one on mine. I dont think the wastegate is adjustable on them without having to take the wastegate off and adjust it internally with shims between the spring. I believe Crantruck has one of these turbos on his 8x8.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The bigger turbos designed for the LDS motor have a "sort of" square body that pressurizes the intake. Wish I could find that dang picture for you. What you described with the bulge and 4 bolts facing the rear of the motor, it sounds like thats what you got. Let me know if you want to trade turbos. I have an LDS with a "D" turbo.

 

[jimk]

The two big factors, engine operating range and displacement, are the same.

Can anyone offer the LDS max boost in psi?. The LDS-465-1Trouble Shooting Manual spec. is 18-20"Hg at 2400RPM(page 34).

The manual indicates induction air flow is rated at 550cfm (page 10). The LDT air filter element is labeled 440 cfm.

Since air flow is higher I have to assume boost is also higher. All thing being equal higher boost means higher turbine speeds. There is a point when the compressor efficiency drops off and/or the stress on the turbine/compressor wheels gets too high. Designers then change the nozzle area(A) or distance from center shaft to center area(R). This ratio (A/R) determines gas flow. Most turbo companies use that number to size turbine housings (20y ago Schwitzer used just the A to designate size).

It's likely the bigger turbo adds not only extra boost but extra air not intended for combustion, to cool the EGT, as Djfreema points out.

You probably should study manifold pressure and EGT after installation, adjust IP as needed. If you run high boost it might be prudent to check the head nuts for torque.

I'd guess if you set IP to run it like a LDT the boost may rise a bit slower. If you set the IP to run like an LDS you will put more stress on the engine. My LD seems to tolerate 12psi at 2500(13psi at 2600) all day long.

Waste gates are nice control devices. Designers often allow boost to rise at a faster rate with a waste gate.

I've seen the smaller non-waste gated turbo on the LDS. They may have been substituted in service because of parts availability issues or indifference.

JimK

 

[Camoclad]

what will happen if I just "slap" it on as is without increasing injector pump. I cant measure boost pressure or cylinder temp and I dont want to ruin my motor. Is there any safe way to do this without endangering my motor. How would I adjust IP.

 

[Hammer]

Given a difference in efficiency for the two motors, you can't get more boost without first adding more fuel.
The larger turbo would most likely make LESS boost. But it would be more efficient at it, so the temps would be cooler.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to put it on, but I run the EGT and boost gauges on anything I plan on messing with anyways.

 

[Camoclad]

So if I put it on and only slightly increase my injector pump I should be ok. Not looking for a 300hp motor here just a little better hill pulling. Should the truck smoke black under load. The way it is now I cant make it it smoke.

 

[ken]

The biggest difference you will see is a higher boost pressure at lower RPM's Once the waste gate opens you won't see much change. You will only get more power at lower RPM's. Unless you increase the fuel rate also. Increasing the fuel rate alone will give you a very noticable increase in power. Even the "C" model turbo can push more air than the intake manafold can flow. Higher boost pressure doesent always mean more CFM's but it usally means higher charge air temps. Witch can decrease power output. I've gotten pretty good results on the flow bench by polishing and opening up the air casings in the lathe.

 

[gimpyrobb]

A bigger turbo will only put more air in the chamber, making LESS smoke. The black smoke is unburnt fuel. If you don't have it now, you need to put more fuel to the motor. I suggest not doing that till you put a pyro in. A different turbo will NOT do what you want.

 

[Hammer]

Anyone know the drive pressure ratios for the different turbos?

 

[joec]

Same turbo on the M543A2. It makes more horse 15-20hp over the "C" turbo. With the waste gate setup on it Different impeller's. Spools up faster to deliver more boost at a lower rpm range. For low end pulling.

 

[jimk]

Slapping it on and hoping for the best puts a lot of faith in those who set up/messed with the IP. Some of these trucks have been around a while and worked on many times. by many different mechanics , some w/perhaps questionable talent. It is also not a direct parts swap. If it smoked a lot before it probably had excess fuel. Adding air is safe. Adding air with fuel available can be dangerous.

Running the engine at LDS power levels may mean running close to the safe max thermal levels (~1200*F pre turbo EGT probe or ~1000*post turbo probe).

There should be a 1/8 pipe plug in intake manifold adapter. You can screw temporary hose barb fitting into that, connect a small length of ~5/16" hose, then a $10 hardware store bourdon tube pressure gauge, zip tied somewhere near the windshield or steering column.

A pyrometer is nice. It takes the guess work out and lets you get the most power within safe limits. It can be removed after the engine is tested or adjusted. JimK