LMTV/MV Safety Improvements

[aleigh]

Sort of coming off this thread http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?149043-LMTV-cab-front-collision-damage-with-pics I got to thinking about safety improvements that can reasonably be made to a LMTV (in my case) or other MV.

I realize, of course, there is no substitute for a skilled and safe driver, and obviously, can't protect against everything.

Roll Cage - an obvious one - but does anyone have info on where/how to get one of these fabricated? Guys at any tube shop weld up "roll cages" for Jeeps "pssst hey kid wanna buy a roll cage?" but I think given the weight of a MV and how flimsy the cab is I'd be looking for something that actually has some thought/engineering behind it. How thick do the tubes have to be? etc. I see them on the big Dakar / whatever trucks all the time, so someone's doing this. I'd also hate to make an already wide thing even wider - I wonder if there are internal cage solutions at these weights.

Seatbelts - LMTV already has 3-points and I've always been told not to go to 4/5 point harnesses or stiff seats until there is a roll cage (so you can deflect when the car crushes). Lotta MVs seem to have just the lap belts though, so that's an obvious upgrade. Are people doing that in their other MVs?

ABS - This one has me really curious, especially because up in WA we get a lot of snow. I know guys around here seem to hate electronics so maybe this is sacrilege, but my M1078 is an A0 and doesn't have ABS. I wonder if it is possible to retrofit it, either with a commercial wabco setup or retrofitting parts from an A1. Seems like the air end of things is straight-forward, the wheel sensors though... Can anyone chime in who has done or contemplated this? Advantages/Disadvantages?

Steering Wheel - As another poster pointed out, you go right into the bus-like steering wheel in a bad collision. Any alternatives?

 

[tennmogger]

The front lifting system on the FMTV, that huge frame behind the cab, would make a good base for a roll-over protection system, ROPS. As an example, when Case Equipment started buying model 406 Unimogs from Mercedes Benz they upgraded the 406 with a special Case designed deck, and that included a ROPS. It is not a full roll cage, just, as it says, a ROPS. The FMTV could benefit from a ROPS and the base for one is already there.

A full roll cage on the cab would have to be lifted by the cab-lift system, and that seems just barely adequate for the cab. And, where would a cage be attached? Ideally it would tie to the frame but that can't happen because of the cab lift requirement.

Here are examples of the Case ROPS, what I spotted on the interweb.


A structure like this could protect the fragile cabs in case of a tip-over.

 

[aleigh]

Oh - that's a really good idea!

 

[aleigh]

Looks like - on the dakar trucks (iveco etc) they are doing an internal cage. If I had to guess they do members along the floor and the roof both and make a safety cell/cage. I agree about the weight on the cab lift - but then again seems like you could bring in a better lift system like they ultimately ended up doing for the armored cabs. Aren't the newer ones dual piston or something?



They also seem to mount vertical bars on the outside of the cab that extend the height of the windshield. Probably not so much for safety but to clear limbs - probably not a bad idea actually.

 

[Suprman]

Right in front of the heater box before the cab floor hump comes up over the engine seems like a weak point in a collision. Maybe some type of under reinforcement there along with a metal grill integrated into the cab front to distribute an impact more evenly across.

 

[MaiNiaK]

Notice all the gussets in the above Dakar roll cage pic?

Yes it's true anyone can throw together a jeep roll cage and sell them, and people buy them up thinking their all safe. Fact is engineering costs huge money, then there is testing. (Which means destroying a truck)

A well placed push bumper off the frame ends (shackle points), to prevent front end crushing. This push bumper should pivot on the lower shackle hole and pin on the upper shackle hole, so the cab can still be tipped. Then an interior roll cage with plenty of forward to rear and side to side gussets with floor mounts that land on top of (or as close to as possible) the body mounts - frame as possible.
This interior frame should be kept as light as possible while maintaining ampel amounts of gussets as possible. So to reduce stress on lifting system.

The front lifting position, mentioned by tennmogger, is another good idea.

Today I had the thrill of my life driving mine down the mountain. We recently got a bunch of rain on top of some packed snow that we had, which turned everything to glare ice. Needless to say these heavy trucks on glare ice, even with aggressive tires, is like having bald tires. My trucks ass end almost came around me on several occasions.
This has me seriously considering studding my tires with 3/4 inch stainless sheet metal screws.

 

[aleigh]

I looked into the roll cage thing a little more and it looks like FIA (and other sanctioning bodies) have regulations concerning the roll cages - incl. for trucks of this class. In turn some of the shops will build and provide certificates that they meet the standards (so they are race legal). So far though the only places I have found are in Europe but I am going to dig around to see if I can find a NA shop. Isn't there a guy out in Colorado that does Unimog rally trucks?

The standout I found EU wise is probably http://www.va-motorsport.com/rollcages/?page=42 - they have some interesting pictures, you can see how they are putting them together.

 

[tburk49760]

ABS - This one has me really curious, especially because up in WA we get a lot of snow. I know guys around here seem to hate electronics so maybe this is sacrilege, but my M1078 is an A0 and doesn't have ABS. I wonder if it is possible to retrofit it, either with a commercial wabco setup or retrofitting parts from an A1. Seems like the air end of things is straight-forward, the wheel sensors though... Can anyone chime in who has done or contemplated this? Advantages/Disadvantages
When I regeared my A0, I noticed that the wheel speed sensors were there already. Nothing to plug them into though...

 

[Ukraine Train]

As far as safety improvement, I think prevention is probably the best bang for your buck. Extra mirrors, turn signals, rear camera, properly maintained brakes, etc. are relatively inexpensive and effective. ROPS is a great idea but implementation is tough and expensive. Reinforcing the front of the cab/frame will keep the cab from crushing in a frontal collision but the lack of any sort of hood or crumple zones means very high G's in an impact, which are transferred into the occupants, resulting in injury.

 

[Lmtv772]

As far as safety improvement, I think prevention is probably the best bang for your buck. Extra mirrors, turn signals, rear camera, properly maintained brakes, etc. are relatively inexpensive and effective. ROPS is a great idea but implementation is tough and expensive. Reinforcing the front of the cab/frame will keep the cab from crushing in a frontal collision but the lack of any sort of hood or crumple zones means very high G's in an impact, which are transferred into the occupants, resulting in injury.

Also what I found out to be very important. and maybe even one of the top 3 safety tips is:
Keep your distance to traffic in front of you! I count from a point the leading vehicle passes to me passing it 3 seconds, always!
I always keep my head on a swivel, never drive above the speed limit.
if a traffic light turns orange (not red!!!) in front of you keep going, otherwise you'll stop in the middle of the intersection or have someone squeezing under your rear axle.

 

[BuiltMFG]

I looked into the roll cage thing a little more and it looks like FIA (and other sanctioning bodies) have regulations concerning the roll cages - incl. for trucks of this class. In turn some of the shops will build and provide certificates that they meet the standards (so they are race legal). So far though the only places I have found are in Europe but I am going to dig around to see if I can find a NA shop. Isn't there a guy out in Colorado that does Unimog rally trucks?

The standout I found EU wise is probably http://www.va-motorsport.com/rollcages/?page=42 - they have some interesting pictures, you can see how they are putting them together.

This is old but Couch Offroad is the guy who built Bam Bam for the Breslau Rally.

 

[scottmandu]

It all depends on what you plan to impact with regards to improving safety. If you hit something head on the is below the bumper (which is most cars/trucks) the impacted vehicle will simply pass under the bumper and fram rails hitting the front axle. In that case LMTV wins. If you hit something higer than the front bumper then you may have a problem as the cab will likely be impacted, but the few examples I've seen the whole cab tends to be pushed rearward. However I'd emphasize what Ukraine Train said.. an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.. Avoiding an incident is the best safety measure of them all.

 

[coachgeo]

traffic accidents are far less of my consideration than offroad mishaps. Maybe my thoughs should be other way around?

 

[rcamacho]

Old thread I know...
Looking at rollover pictures of LMTV and more recent related fatalities I'm curious if there is a commercially available ROPS/interior cage kit available yet. Easy enough for an experienced fabricator but seems like something MME/others could offer to the aftermarket.

 

[olly hondro]

The front lifting system on the FMTV, that huge frame behind the cab, would make a good base for a roll-over protection system, ROPS. As an example, when Case Equipment started buying model 406 Unimogs from Mercedes Benz they upgraded the 406 with a special Case designed deck, and that included a ROPS. It is not a full roll cage, just, as it says, a ROPS. The FMTV could benefit from a ROPS and the base for one is already there.

A full roll cage on the cab would have to be lifted by the cab-lift system, and that seems just barely adequate for the cab. And, where would a cage be attached? Ideally it would tie to the frame but that can't happen because of the cab lift requirement.

Here are examples of the Case ROPS, what I spotted on the interweb.
View attachment 603008

A structure like this could protect the fragile cabs in case of a tip-over.

I keyed off the lifting structure, 0.250" wall.

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[rcamacho]

I keyed off the lifting structure, 0.250" wall.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Really nice work


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[coachgeo]

For camper am using one from Ambulance because the boxes construction will give cab some protection. Ambo Boxes... ESPECIALLY the high dollar ones of at least 90 to early 2000's.. maybe older; which I was lucky to obtain, are stronger than any expedition box out there.

From the pics I've seen the A pillar is the weakest point of the cab itself.

 

[rcamacho]

Yeah, agreed on A pillar


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[Third From Texas]

Old thread I know...
Looking at rollover pictures of LMTV and more recent related fatalities I'm curious if there is a commercially available ROPS/interior cage kit available yet. Easy enough for an experienced fabricator but seems like something MME/others could offer to the aftermarket.

Somewhat unrelated, the only M1079's that I've seen that were rolled had their cab's battered but intact.

My takeaway was that survival protection might not need to be internal.

I'll add that I'm no fan of any form of "bolt-together" roll protection. Weld it together in cab if you cage.

 

[Wingnut13]

An exoskeleton may be the way to go. I’ve had cages in a couple of my rides. With the size of tubing required for protection it would really encroach on the premium living space in the cab. For as big as these trucks are the cab feels right to me. Of course if you are trying to keep it stock looking, that’s not gonna work.