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long distance starting afive needed

Robo McDuff

In memorial Ron - 73M819
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Finally getting back to work on the M51A2 1973 multifuel dump truck. And now for the first time since I have the truck, it will not start.

Background: the truck has been sitting idle outside for three years. Last time I started her up with the almost gone Hawker Armysafe's after a long period of sitting idle, without problem. Now, the Hawkers are dead and gone, and by lack of better, I first used a 12V 150 Ah tractor battery connected with a 12V 77 Ah diesel car battery, both fully loaded and good quality. Not ideal, but I did not have other batteries available.

Checked for hydro-lock, in-tank pump works fine, first fuel filter gives clear fuel under pressure from the in-tank pump.
Engine turned without problem, full of enthusiasm but just did not start. You had the feeling it was almost there, but missed that last inch.

Finally another tractor battery arrived, 100 Ah. Combined it with the 150 Ah, better results, almost there but still in the end the engine time and again drops down from the almost there to no dice turning over. With a gasser, I would say no sparks. Fuel seems to be ok, air filter is clean, it was later in the day but outside temps were around 70 F.

I did do the burst method: short stat burst, wait, another burst. In the end, I just kept my finger on the starter for over a minute to see if that helped. Worked a bit better, but still no final start.

1) Is this just a question of recharging the two big batteries and keep trying?

2) It has been rather humid during the last weeks, would keeping a small burner in front of the air intake help?

3) We are talking the old simple M51A2 multifuel truck here. Can it help if soldier 2 gives a sniff of ether into the air intake while soldier 1 cranks her over? Can that actually hurt more than it helps?

Before anybody makes a :???: :evil: remark, NO I will not try to do action 2 and action 3 at the same time.

Any other suggestions?
 

gimpyrobb

dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
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Uhhh how many amp hour batts?


You want AT LEAST 500cca batts. Im surprised it spins at all.


Edit, check the fuel shutoff rod too.
 

Robo McDuff

In memorial Ron - 73M819
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Good remark, but we covered that. The fuel shut off rod gets stuck regularly, but we made sure it was completely back in when starting. After a few tries, we pulled it out and pushed it back in again to make sure. I think the difference between full out and back in is about 1/2 inch or a bit more.

My old Hawkers Armasafe plus batteries were both 100 Ah batteries, I just checked the specs list, and they had a whooping 1225 A cca. However, the last time I used them they started to have problems keeping their load for a few hours, so I expect the cca to be weakened as well.

The civilian tractor (agriculture tractor) battery is a 12V 140 Ah with 800 A. My Exide Premium car battery is a 77 Ah with 760 A cold crank performance. Not sure about the other 100 Ah tractor battery, but it should be in the same range.

This is only a stop-gap thing. My problem is, we have to start the truck once, get the brakes working more or less, drive it half a mile from the field where it is now to the workshop of my son, so we can work on it. We have no vehicle that can tow it safely over this very narrow and windy forest road lined with deep ditches. In addition, I need to maneuver with it to get it in its place.

Once there, we will start take it apart, get it fully functional mechanically and sand-blasted and painted properly.

I will get good but used Nato batteries the next time I am in the Netherlands, but can not get them here for a good price here, and I am not ready to invest full price before the truck is completely ready.


Edit: I know that using batteries of different capacity and age is "not the best thing to do" (to say it softly), but as said, this is a stop-gap one time solution.

Edit 2: to go even further of the reserve, what about putting the two smaller batteries in parallel, and then connect that pack in series with the second big battery to increase the total capacity? Or is that too risky even for a short duration.
 
Last edited:

zanther

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I think these have the petcock between fuel filters 2 and three, similiar to a LDT right? if so , did you bleed there? drivers side, back, side of engine.

If you're getting fuel there, with the in tank pump, I'd crack an injetor line open on the block side and see if you get any fuel out while cranking.
If you're not getting fuel at the secondary filters... check for a crushed fuel line on the front frame rail between fuel filter 1 and the inlet side of the IP.
 

Robo McDuff

In memorial Ron - 73M819
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The five-ton multifuel LDS engine has a fuel shut-off valve on the fuel pump, if that is what you mean. A pain to reach and work on.
 

gimpyrobb

dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
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If you haven't unbolted the fuel shut off plunger and looked under it, you havent checked it.


The plunger that goes in and out HAS NO CONNECTION to the fuel shut off rod.
 

Robo McDuff

In memorial Ron - 73M819
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:oops: This is new for me.

Unfortunately, TM 20 does not have a good pic of that area, mostly grayish without any details. Dismantling it and checking it out in detail was planned for later, so I will put it forward to today, if I can get to it; that location is a pain to reach from above, maybe below will work.
 

gimpyrobb

dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
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Let me see if I have a pic here...IP c.jpgIP b.jpg Thats what it will look like when apart.

Here is how the fuel rod comes apart if its rusty and you have to take it apart.
ip fuel rod a.jpg
 

Robo McDuff

In memorial Ron - 73M819
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We did it

:jumpin: :clinto: :naner: :tank: :driver:

Reloaded the 145 Ah 800 cca battery. Turned out that my son had a new 155 Ah 900 cca battery in his forklift we could use as second battery.

We had the air filter out in the sun, pre-warmed the filter housing a bit and then reinstalled it. Better starting but still no go. So soldier 2 sprayed a few whiffs of start-help (probably pure diethyl ether) in the air intake. Some tries, but we got her running reasonably good.

Lousy brakes and a completely frozen left-turn action (two people needed to get it around) but we decided now or never. We took 15 minutes for the distance, with soldier two walking in front of the truck and help with the two left turns. We had to go back and forward to get the truck through the corner and two people are needed to pull the sterring wheel around. Talking about stuck. Right turn goes as easy as should be. :cookoo:

Whatever; after FIVE years, the M51A2 is finally at my son's place.

Tomorrow and the next days we are going to take off all wheels and the left fender. Then we have some better access and we are going to take out the entire steering section and overhaul it. Ditto with the brakes. I think the master cylinder is the main problem.

What was amazing is that at the end of the trip, we put the truck at an idle of 1000-1100 rpm and it ran ever so sweet, not much smoke, great sound. Touch wood, but that made me very happy.

We also already got the bended bumper off, so we made a good start. We called it an early day at 6 PM and went for a well-deserved pepper steak.

Pics and video will follow soon.Gimpy, thanks for the pics, I will take it apart and have a closer look now I have better access.
 
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