Looking for replacement bearing and seal for Water Pump 12557071.

[Jake59]

Hello,

I realize I am not in my usual forum, so my apology for intruding, but have a question for HMMWV users.
Anyone know a good value source for replacement bearing WR17297 and for the seal assembly of these water pumps?
Need to replace a few run out bearings; sorry not in a position to purchase complete new water pump right now.

Thank you, much appreciated.
Jake

 

[fpchief]

Hello,

I realize I am not in my usual forum, so my apology for intruding, but have a question for HMMWV users.
Anyone know a good value source for replacement bearing WR17297 and for the seal assembly of these water pumps?
Need to replace a few run out bearings; sorry not in a position to purchase complete new water pump right now.

Thank you, much appreciated.
Jake

Hi Jake, I do understand you dont want to buy a whole pump...and I have no idea about the bearing but....I just replaced mine on a 6.5 in a 1097a2 and it was about $80 from melton. I think they are alot higher at some other sources and wanted to make sure you knew about them.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

For the time and cost, why not just replace the pump?

 

[fpchief]

He's in Belgium so shipping may make a whole pump cost prohibitive too.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

He's in Belgium so shipping may make a whole pump cost prohibitive too.

oh....

 

[Jake59]

Hi Jake, I do understand you dont want to buy a whole pump...and I have no idea about the bearing but....I just replaced mine on a 6.5 in a 1097a2 and it was about $80 from melton. I think they are alot higher at some other sources and wanted to make sure you knew about them.

#Hi FPChief,

Thanks! Much appreciated, but not really an option for me at present.
I'll keep on looking for the actual repair kits for this pump.

Best,
Jake

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

The WP in a hmmwv is a standard GM pump, has no less than 5 or more various part numbers.
its used worldwide, this pump should be no problem to just about anywhere I would figure.
dont attempt to look for it by that one part number, look up the NSN 2930-01-353-5794 and see every part number ever
assigned to the pump from different mfg’s.

https://www.parttarget.com/2930-01-353-5794_2930013535794_12534418.html

 

[Mogman]

Try these guys

ASE INDUSTRIES – AUTOMOTIVE WATER PUMP COMPONENTS

 

[Jake59]

The WP in a hmmwv is a standard GM pump, has no less than 5 or more various part numbers.
its used worldwide, this pump should be no problem to just about anywhere I would figure.
dont attempt to look for it by that one part number, look up the NSN 2930-01-353-5794 and see every part number ever
assigned to the pump from different mfg’s.

https://www.parttarget.com/2930-01-353-5794_2930013535794_12534418.html

Hello,

And thank you for your good advice.
I will research using the full list of part numbers and exchange numbers.
Until now I only had the casting number 12557071, but I guess that is not correct to search for replacement parts.

Thank you again!!

Jake

 

[Jake59]

Try these guys

ASE INDUSTRIES – AUTOMOTIVE WATER PUMP COMPONENTS

Thank you!
Best info I got to date!!

It seems to me that the HMMWV waterpump is a weak spot, or am I wrong?
Taken apart with puller and 6T press and there are 2 bearings.
The roller ball bearing is at the impeller side with 6 balls, held in a plastic cage, which runs in a long hardened outer bearing race and on the inside, the balls run in a grove directly cut into the shaft. This prevents the shaft from moving in or out.
The needle bearing has 10 needles in a plastic cage and is at the drive pulley side and runs in the same long hardened race on the outside and the inside rolls directly on the shaft.

From what I can observe, the ball bearings remain intact, but the needle bearings run a groove into the shaft.
Obviously the needle bearing has the most to endure, as it takes the one sided pull and beating of the V-belt/serpentine and also any vibrations such as from the fan if any unbalance is present.
The shaft is grounded very smooth, but still, it seems to me the shaft is too soft a steel to have hardened steel needle bearing rollers in constant contact and under load rolling on there.

Wondering if I can make it more reliable and ways to improve the waterpump, possibly by using a needle bearing with an inner and outer hardenend race and pressed onto the shaft, but could not find such needle bearings with ID 3/4" and OD 1.50".
I know replacement waterpumps are available and affordable, but what if you can have a better product for a cheap price as DIY...

Perhaps by grounding the shaft down from 3/4" to 5/8" and pressing a needle bearing with its' own inner and outer race onto that with ID 5/8" of course and OD 1.50" which will exactly press fit the pump housing...

... just a few ideas...
Comments welcome
Jake

 

[Jake59]

Thank you!
Best info I got to date!!

It seems to me that the HMMWV waterpump is a weak spot, or am I wrong?
Taken apart with puller and 6T press and there are 2 bearings.
The roller ball bearing is at the impeller side with 6 balls, held in a plastic cage, which runs in a long hardened outer bearing race and on the inside, the balls run in a grove directly cut into the shaft. This prevents the shaft from moving in or out.
The needle bearing has 10 needles in a plastic cage and is at the drive pulley side and runs in the same long hardened race on the outside and the inside rolls directly on the shaft.

From what I can observe, the ball bearings remain intact, but the needle bearings run a groove into the shaft.
Obviously the needle bearing has the most to endure, as it takes the one sided pull and beating of the V-belt/serpentine and also any vibrations such as from the fan if any unbalance is present.
The shaft is grounded very smooth, but still, it seems to me the shaft is too soft a steel to have hardened steel needle bearing rollers in constant contact and under load rolling on there.

Wondering if I can make it more reliable and ways to improve the waterpump, possibly by using a needle bearing with an inner and outer hardenend race and pressed onto the shaft, but could not find such needle bearings with ID 3/4" and OD 1.50".
I know replacement waterpumps are available and affordable, but what if you can have a better product for a cheap price as DIY...

Perhaps by grounding the shaft down from 3/4" to 5/8" and pressing a needle bearing with its' own inner and outer race onto that with ID 5/8" of course and OD 1.50" which will exactly press fit the pump housing...

... just a few ideas...
Comments welcome
Jake

...comment to self...

Actually, to keep things simple... it seems to me that the cause of the worn out bearings in effect is... lack of lubrication... the "greased for life" bearings keep the grease inside the bearing housing alright, but the bearing itself eventually runs dry, as the grease gets pressed out of the actual rolling surface and hardens inside the housing.
I have now disassembled 2 defective pumps, both have same issue and both have plenty of grease inside, but it is almost solid and looks very nasty.

In my modest opinion, the ultimate and simplest solution to this problem is going back to what was proven to be good and working for decades... install a grease zerk on the water pump and give it 3 to 4 squeezes with your grease gun every time you change the engine oil. This pushes out the old hardened grease and brings in new fresh grease and new life to your water pump... No doubt you pump will outlive your HMMWV... just not sure how accessible the HMMWV water pump is or perhaps a 90deg connector and grease tube with remote zerk can do... just thinking out loud....
Next I'll take a few measurements to see where the topside weep hole hits the bearing shell or alternately, where the best spot is for drilling a greasing hole.
Biggest challenge is drilling a 1/8" hole in the bearing outer race, between the 2 bearings, as it is very hard steel... and then cleaning out the shavings, not a real big problem when the pump is off of the engine.
Ideally the bearing should be drilled before pressing into the pump housing, as this will allow cleaning out all shavings perfectly as these bearing can be fully disassembled and the shaft pulled out and repacked. The outer bearing race has a groove in the middle of 0.8mm deep and 2.0mm wide. This should be perfect to allow the grease to be dispersed around the bearing and reach the drilled hole.

Thoughts...?

Jake

 

[Milcommoguy]

Focused like a laser beam. Should have been on the design team for the HumV.

A little squirt of grease as got to be better than remove and replace.

I like the way you think !! Yankee ingenuity just got kicked in the pants, CAMO

 

[Jake59]

Focused like a laser beam. Should have been on the design team for the HumV.

A little squirt of grease as got to be better than remove and replace.

I like the way you think !! Yankee ingenuity just got kicked in the pants, CAMO

Thanks!
But rest assured... although I do not have the right papers to state I am a Yank, I have always felt like one, always been on your side in any discussion... actually got myself into trouble and even fights when I was very young because of my pro-US-attitude...
Was fortunate enough to have lived in US for 3 years when I was at my very youngest... and that stayed with me I guess.
Anecdote: when I was 12, obviously I had no issues in English class, given my time lived in US; and I had my first English classes and my English teacher, a wonderful Lady, you know the kind, she would spend her holidays in UK to keep up with the latest in the English language and she really knew all grammatical rules and everything. Anyways, I was in her class for 2 years in a row and when we finished the final year, she said this to me (in her perfect Oxford English of course): "Jake, you are my best student, my favorite and I love the way you spell and write, but I hate it when you speak English..." and she smiled and hugged me... I just could not - and to this date still do not - speak Oxford English, but I do speak American English... you know, the tomato and piano and all the other stuff the Brits pronounce so very differently...

...just wish I was living in US now... hate where I am now, way to socialist and stupid!

Cheers,
Jake

 

[juanprado]

A/1 cardone is probably the biggest US rebuilder/remanufacteur of many products in the retail automotive market. When I referenced the part number, it came right up in the interchange so that tells me they know how to source the parts.
I would contact their tech support department and see if they would be willing to sell you the bearing and seal or tell you where they source it.

Cardone | Water Pump

CARDONE® Remanufactured Water Pumps are re-engineered, built and tested to match O.E. performance. Each unit features new, O.E.-supplied unitized seals and application-specific bearings to ensure long

www.cardone.com

If they will not sell to you overseas, I would be glad to purchase for you and ship across the pond.

 

[Mogman]

The zerk fitting is only part of the "fix", if you put a zerk fitting on it and give it several pumps when doing an oil change you will blow out the seal and then ALL the grease will exit pronto, the site I listed probably has a higher quality bearing than production units.
IF you wanted to go the zerk fitting route you will need to find a way to relieve the pressure when pumping grease in, IDEALLY you would pump the grease in "outside" one bearing then through the other bearing and having some sort of "vent" outside the other bearing, this way you would be pumping grease through both bearings, another danger without a vent is you could pump grease past the inside seal circulating globs of grease through the cooling system, this certainly would not be desired!!

 

[Jake59]

The zerk fitting is only part of the "fix", if you put a zerk fitting on it and give it several pumps when doing an oil change you will blow out the seal and then ALL the grease will exit pronto, the site I listed probably has a higher quality bearing than production units.
IF you wanted to go the zerk fitting route you will need to find a way to relieve the pressure when pumping grease in, IDEALLY you would pump the grease in "outside" one bearing then through the other bearing and having some sort of "vent" outside the other bearing, this way you would be pumping grease through both bearings, another danger without a vent is you could pump grease past the inside seal circulating globs of grease through the cooling system, this certainly would not be desired!!

Yep, you're right, the bearing seals need some sort of venting hole as well. Making a 1/16" hole in the seal should be ok for the old grease/overflow to be evacuated. Ideally on both sides, but this is only possible when the bearing is not yet installed.

Not too worried about a little grease that could get into the cooling circuit... it melts quite easily and would actually add some greasy-ness to the coolant, not really a bad thing. I used to add Marly products to my coolant fluid, which provided additional "lubrication of the water pump"; they don't sell that stuff any longer, I imagine it was too good...

I had a good look at ASE by the way and I believe they have what we need to fix our water pumps... I wrote them an email; awaiting reply.
Thanks again!

Made a few detailed pics this evening of the HMMWV water pump and components. One bad pic in the set, sorry about that.

Am surprised of the amount of wear on the shaft where the needle bearing runs.: Theoretical Diameter 19.05mm (3/4"), measured 18.95mm and where the needle bearing runs: 18.84mm. This is not really a lot of difference/wear, but considering how much I can wobble the shaft from one side to the other, there must be comparable wear on the race, on the needles themselves and on the shaft, thus cumulated into such notable play.

Also, after closer examination, the weep holes are not an option as a greasing bore. They end up behind the bearing and between the seal.
But there is room to drill a hole into the water pump housing and right in between the two bearings. Need to do a test drill with Cobalt drill into bearing race... I'll let you know...

Best,
Jake

 

[frank8003]

maybe these people can help you with parts

HMMWV HUMVEE und HMMER H1 Erstzteile - us-army-military-shop

Wie liefern alle Ersatzteile für den HMMWV / HUMMER H1. Sonderbestellungen sind kein Probelm.

www.us-army-military-shop.de

The whole water pump is 78 bucks here

Water pump for all 6.2L and detuned 6.5L diesel engines used in the basic and A1 version military HMMWV. Also fits 92-93 6.2L Hummer H1 and CUCV M1008, M1009, etc.
Standard rotation pump design turns same direction as crank pulley.
Made in USA. P/N 15633465, alternate numbers 5740079, 23500133, 15633485. NSN 2930011937802. Includes gasket.

 

[Jake59]

Try these guys

ASE INDUSTRIES – AUTOMOTIVE WATER PUMP COMPONENTS

Hello,

And thank you for this valuable link!
I sent these guys an inquiry for pricing of bearings, seals and impellers.
Once I have all parts, I will start rebuilding the 4 HMMWV 6.5 L Diesel water pumps I have here:

First I need to clean, inspect, sandblast and inspect for cracks or defects.
Then I will study the best way to improve; i.e. install a grease zerk, which means I will have to drill a hole in the pump housing and also through the bearing outer race and this could be a bit tricky, as the race is pretty hard steel... so I will first give it a try on the old bearing races I have here to see if and how this can be done. I realize that drilling through the race will require me to disassemble the complete bearing and remove the shaft in order to clean out all shavings; then repack the bearing and reassemble. The only challenge there is removing the bearing seal on the ball bearing side (impeller side).

Following remark from Mogman, I will also drill a very small hole in the bearing seals on both sides, to allow the grease pressure out, without totally opening up the bearing and exposing it to dirt, water, ...

Quite sure I am onto something good and beneficial for all here.

I'm not doing this fast nor as a top priority, but I'll keep you posted on all and any progress and mishaps...

Cheers,
Jake

 

[Action]

If you drill a hole in the outer part of the bearing, no matter how small, won’t the balls catch on it during use?

 

[Jake59]

If you drill a hole in the outer part of the bearing, no matter how small, won’t the balls catch on it during use?

Hi,

No worries there.
The water pump has a single outer race, which holds a ball bearing on the impeller side and a needle bearing on the pulley side.
This outer race is long; 2" 1/8 and the two bearings run on the outer edges, so there is plenty of room and open space between the actual bearing to drill, without interfering in any way with the actual bearings itself.
See picture.

Best,

Jake