M1009 axle swap options

[thetnhillbilly]

I recently bought an '86 M1009 with an exploded rear end. This is my first MV and also my first chevy. After reading through some of the other posts, I think I should go ahead and upgrade the axles. I've always heard that one of the advantages of chevys is the ease of swapping parts. So, it sounds like a 14 bolt might be the way to go. My question is, what vehicles (specifically) should I be looking for at the junkyard? I would like to keep similar gearing (being able to drive 60mph is nice). Whatever vehicle I find, I shoud take the front and rear to upgrade them both and be sure the gearing is the same, right? On vehicles with a 14 bolt rear end, what front axle do they usually have? Is the steering going to be a problem?

Anyway, you guys can get the idea of what I'm trying to do. Any advice is appreciated. Also any tips or how-tos wouldn't hurt my feeling either. I always want to be as well informed before starting as I can be.

Thanks in advance.

 

[hobie237]

My buddy just got a 14bff for $350 from a junkyard. Granted, it's an open rear rather than the Detroit Locker in the M1008s, but it was cheap and has 3.21 gears- and for the street, the open rear is better than a locker.

Taking both is a good idea, for the reasons you mention. I want to say that the D60 is pretty common for front axle applications where there's a 14bff rear, but I'll defer to the more experienced for that one.

 

[84cucv1ton]

1980 and older 3/4 ton chevys have a 10b front and a 14ff rear. can get them for around 300-400. if you want to spend more. all 1 tons have a 14ff and a dana 60 front. strong axles. you can get lucky. can get pricy. look around see what you find. should by a matched set. all cucv 1 tons have 4.56 gears and locked 14b in the rear. the 1980 3/4 tons seem to have 4.10. all the ones i have had 4.10s.

a 10b or the 60 bolt in. 14b needs the shock mounts and spring perches moved. not to hard to do.

if your going to put a lift kit in, i recomend tuff country. good price. ride good. flexs well. any other parts you might like to look at diy4x.com has a ton of great parts for the old chevys

good luck!!

 

[IHASFIP]

We just sold a Dana 60 and a 14 BFF both with Detroits, 5.13's, rear discs, and hy-steer cross over for $2K. You can get a 14BFF open diff with 4.10s around here for 100-150$. And a Dana 60 when you can find them for 800$-1200$, 4.10s also open diff. You can find an lug Dana 44 for 150-250$ and the same for an 8 lug 10 bolt.

D

 

[DeuceNewb]

We just sold a Dana 60 and a 14 BFF both with Detroits, 5.13's, rear discs, and hy-steer cross over for $2K. You can get a 14BFF open diff with 4.10s around here for 100-150$. And a Dana 60 when you can find them for 800$-1200$, 4.10s also open diff. You can find an lug Dana 44 for 150-250$ and the same for an 8 lug 10 bolt.

D

holy hell, i'm gonna have to bring my axles to texas to sell them!!!!
60/14B combo from an 1008 sells for about 1200 around here, and that's both, 4.56 gears and detroit in rear

 

[84cucv1ton]

yeah i should do that. have not sold a set in a while.

 

[11Echo]

I bought a complete running/driving 79 3/4 ton Suburban for parts. It's got 350 with a turbo 400/203 transfer case. The differentials are 3.73's. It cost me 615.00 !

 

[thetnhillbilly]

First, thank for all the replies so far.

It sound like the 14ff in the rear and dana 60 in the front is what I want. Just so I'm clear, I should only have to move the spring and shock mounts? The steering components shouldn't be a problem? Should I get the steering parts off the donor truck too?

Some of the junkyards charge based on the relative value of what I want, but others just charge a flat amount for any axle off any truck (that is where I'll try first, it is cheaper if I can get what I want). To get the 14ff rear, dana 60 front I should be looking for 2500/3500 series chevy trucks, right? What year do I need to go earlier than to search for the solid axle trucks? Which trucks or trims might have the taller gears (so my top speed doesn't drop too much)?

Thanks again for the help so far. I'm just trying to get educated so I don't end up misunderstanding and get the wrong stuff.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

It sound like the 14ff in the rear and dana 60 in the front is what I want.

Well, sorta. What are your plans for this truck and what size tires are we talking here? D60's are great axles...but unless you're running a larger than 35" tire you'd probably be served well by a D44 or Corporate 10 bolt front axle. D60's are beefy and that beef costs money, even for used ones.
The 14FF in the rear is the best option for you.

Just so I'm clear, I should only have to move the spring and shock mounts? The steering components shouldn't be a problem? Should I get the steering parts off the donor truck too?

If you grab a 14FF out of a 3/4 ton truck then it should bolt right into your half ton K5. Only on the 1 ton trucks are the spring and shocks mounts in different places on the rear axle.
In the front the mounts are all in the same places but some of the brake and steering connections are a bit different between the D44/10 bolt and the D60. If you put a D60 in then grab all the pieces.

To get the 14ff rear, dana 60 front I should be looking for 2500/3500 series chevy trucks, right? What year do I need to go earlier than to search for the solid axle trucks? Which trucks or trims might have the taller gears (so my top speed doesn't drop too much)?

-The D60 is under the front of all Chevy/GMC K30/K35 trucks from 77-91 with the same square body style. Starting in '88 SOME of the trucks went to the newer, more rounded body style that also featured a completely different front suspension and axle. Those trucks have nothing you want. Basically if it's a 1 ton truck with single rear wheels (as in not a dually) and the same body style as your truck then it will have a D60.

-3/4 tons of this body style will either have a D44 or a Corporate 10 bolt front axle. Other than 2 more lugs per side they're pretty much the same as the half ton axles.

-The 14FF was under some K20/K25 3/4 tons from 1973 to 1988 and the 1 ton K30/K35 trucks from 73-91. Look for the big hubs sticking out from the wheels. As mentioned earlier you want a 3/4 ton rear axle for the easiest swap.
Also 3/4 ton Suburbans will fall under the same info as the 3/4 ton trucks.
A good percentage of the 3/4 ton trucks and Burbs from the 80's had the 14SF which is a weaker axle than the 14 bolt FF that you want. Not a bad axle but while you're doing all this it makes no sense to NOT go with the cheaper, more common, and stronger 14FF.

 

[2deuce]

How is the best way to tell a 14sf from a 14ff? as your hunting in a wrecking yard.

 

[drewmech]

Ok so here are a few links that may help you.

For the rear end

Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drivehttp://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/14bolt.html

If your doing the old junkyard crawl a list of "RPO" (regular production options) codes will tell you what should be under the truck without having to climb under it or pull it apart. RPO codes are generally found on a sticker in the glove box. If the sticker is worn or missing the only way to tell whats in the pumpkin is to open it up.

Most of Chevy's RPO codes

http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/rpo_codes_1973-87.html

First list is most of the chevy truck RPO codes around here's just the truck rear end codes.

GQ1 : AXLE, STD RATIO
GS1 : AXLE REAR, 2.73 RATIO
GS3 : AXLE REAR, 3.73 RATIO
GS4 : AXLE REAR, 3.70 RATIO
GS5 : AXLE REAR, 4.11 RATIO
GS6 : AXLE REAR, 4.56 RATIO
GT1 : AXLE REAR, 2.56 RATIO
GT2 : AXLE REAR, 2.29 RATIO
GT4 : AXLE REAR, 3.73 RATIO (DUP WITH 5 X 1)
GT5 : AXLE REAR, 4.10 RATIO (DUP WITH GT
GT7 : AXLE REAR, 3.33 RATIO
GT8 : AXLE REAR, 4.10 RATIO (DUP WITH GT5)
GTY : AXLE, WIDE TRACK
GU1 : AXLE REAR, 2.41 RATIO
GU2 : AXLE REAR, 2.73 RATIO

Hope that helps ya out alittle bit

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Yep, follow the link there and it explains most of it. The easiest recognizable features of the 14FF are the large hub sticking out from the wheel surface (or the drum brake if there's no wheels) and the distinctive "peaked" shape to the diff and cover.

The 14SF is rounder and has no hubs.

 

[IHASFIP]

There are 8 bolts that hold the axle shaft into the hub. A single floater has no hub and you must pull the diff. cover and remove the c-clips or whatever to get the axle shaft at, I believe. Good luck finding a Dana 60 in a junk yard.

D

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Semi-floater.

 

[thetnhillbilly]

Wow, you guys are just a wealth of information! These are exactly the things I was looking for.

I don't plan on going over 35's, so to put a 60 in the front would be overkill, I guess. My thinking was that since I was probably going to buy a pair instead of re-gearing, I would go ahead and look for the best I could. I also thought that if a 10 bolt wasn't that great as a rear end, it probably wasn't that great as a front end. After all, even though I'm not in 4wd all that much, the front end is having to do both pulling and steering when I am.

Like I said, the rear end has exploded so it has to be replaced. What do you guys suggest in terms of replacing or re-gearing?

Even if I have to open the pumpkin, I'm not sure how to tell a sf from a ff. I understood the rpo giving me the gear ratio, which will definitely come in handy, but does it also tell whether sf or ff?

I did just get a lead on another 1009, so this one may be on the back burner while I spend my money on that instead. I'll know within a couple weeks whether I'll be able to get this other one. I do appreciate all the help, and I know I'll be using it while looking. I'll try to take some pictures too, I hear ya'll like pictures.

Thanks again guys.

 

[rottiedog]

I have a 14 rear and a 44 front with 4:10.

Little low for the 36" tires but might be moving to 38's even though the 44 won't like it. Wish I did a 60 in the front.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/496420/fullsize/055.jpg

Notice the big hub sticking out inside of the "circle" of the wheel studs? If it has that it's a FF. If it doesn't have it then it's a SF.

Also go read that Pirate 4x4 thread linked earlier as it will show you the difference in the shape of the 14FF and 14SF diffs/covers. There's a VERY big visual difference between these axles. It's hard to mistake them for each other.

 

[bigjmcconnell]

Here's some more photos to help add some more tech to a pretty good thread. Pics always help when you are searching junkyard stuff.

Dana 60 front (for M1008 )

As has been said, they are nice, and very heavy duty but carry a high price tag.

14 bolt FF rear from M1008 (just like what AJMBlazer posted)

Junkyard 14 bolts are cheaper if you are going to re-gear it anyway.

And maybe a cheap option for you is to find something like this (NOS for M1009) Even if you run that while building your replacement set.