M1078 Fire Truck with eco hubs

[AsstFireChief]

Hello everyone! Lurking for awhile gathering Intel. My question is for those who have installed the eco hubs. We are building a brush/wildland fire truck. 3126b, rear locker, custom firefighting flatbed with 750 gal tank/pump/tools of the trade. We are the only fire dept and cover a large territory and often travel 40 miles to the fire or 100+ miles if we are mutual aid. Speed matters somewhat... We know we want either the 3.07 gears or the eco hubs. Eco hubs look vastly superior in the highway department. Will they be a hindrance off road? We are told from previous builds that we will be right at max gvw. For those who own eco hubs and off road... Will we have enough power to tackle rough terrain/steep sandy 2 track trails when we're loaded? I've done the math, I understand the gear ratios etc. I'm looking for real world experiences. Thank you for any help.

 

[NDT]

How many gallons are you carrying and what engine do you have?

 

[AsstFireChief]

How many gallons are you carrying and what engine do you have?

750 gals. 3126

 

[NDT]

3.5 tons and 270 hp. Your ffs will be tempted to run wide open to scenes. The ECOs will keep your drivetrain in one piece.

 

[AsstFireChief]

3.5 tons and 270 hp. Your ffs will be tempted to run wide open to scenes. The ECOs will keep your drivetrain in one piece.

Yes. I understand the eco hub advantages on road. My question is for those with experience off road. Will I be handicapped by the loss of gear reduction VS 3.07 gears in steep or sandy terrain or will I still have enough power to get the job done @ roughly 22-23000lbs? Knowing that I can always dump the water in a life or death scenario.

 

[NDT]

Personally I say you won’t lose enough off road capabilities to outweigh the benefits. More folks will chime in after a while.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

You'll be fine off road. Get the engine ECM re-rated to the 330 HP spec. Even at GVRW for the 1078 you are still WAY lighter than what the reduction hubs were supposed to make possible. M1089 A1P2 pulling it's max tow capacity is well past 80k lbs. At less than 1/3 the weight you simply don't need the reduction hubs. The torque converter will give you all the 2:1 you need in crawl.

 

[aw113sgte]

I would guess you would be fine. I'm a former FF (ass chief) and have a 330hp (C7) at just over 30k lbs. I'm able to idle over 18" rocks, lots of steep climbs around here as well, and they will slow me down to 30mph. Although that is way better than some of our tenders that would be doing 15 up those same hills.
I don't think you would have any issues.

 

[AsstFireChief]

You'll be fine off road. Get the engine ECM re-rated to the 330 HP spec. Even at GVRW for the 1078 you are still WAY lighter than what the reduction hubs were supposed to make possible. M1089 A1P2 pulling it's max tow capacity is well past 80k lbs. At less than 1/3 the weight you simply don't need the reduction hubs. The torque converter will give you all the 2:1 you need in crawl.

Thank you. I was hoping you would reply. How do I go about getting the ecm tuned?

 

[AsstFireChief]

I would guess you would be fine. I'm a former FF (ass chief) and have a 330hp (C7) at just over 30k lbs. I'm able to idle over 18" rocks, lots of steep climbs around here as well, and they will slow me down to 30mph. Although that is way better than some of our tenders that would be doing 15 up those same hills.
I don't think you would have any issues.

Thank you for your input. I'm primarily interested in your experience @ 10mph and down. Think logging trails or canyon and cattle trails from the river bottom up to the bluffs on top. In Mode, I understand you down arrow to 1st, will I have enough power to crawl my way to the top of a sandy switchback trail?

 

[Ronmar]

The math says you should be fine.
Stock 3126B 274@~800FT/LB. With 3.9:1 on the axles total(vis 7.8:1 stock), at peak torque/TC stall should deliver roughly 17,035lb of thrust from the tires in 1st/mode. It should be able to drag 24K up a 45.2 degree Slope.

DS Torque 4712FT/LB. 78% of max…
Pretty sure you are going to run out of traction before you run out of torque…

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Thank you. I was hoping you would reply. How do I go about getting the ecm tuned?

You can send it to me or I can flash one from ebay, etc and you can keep the original for a spare.

 

[aw113sgte]

Based on my experience and how easily it idled over rocks on a step hill with 30klbs, I think you would be just fine. I don't have a ton of experience doing the kind of trails you are talking about though. This video will give you a pretty good idea of how they perform offroad with Eco Hubs.

Thread talking about off road performance: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/eco-hubs-off-road-on-our-m1078a1.217983/

 

[AsstFireChief]

You can send it to me or I can flash one from ebay, etc and you can keep the original for a spare.

I tried to contact you via the conversation button but it won't let me. Can you contact me so I can ask you some questions regarding tuning? Thanks.

 

[Ronmar]

I tried to contact you via the conversation button but it won't let me. Can you contact me so I can ask you some questions regarding tuning? Thanks.

Yea you need a certain number of posting in the forum before it unlocks the message function…

 

[hike]

The math says you should be fine.
Stock 3126B 274@~800FT/LB. With 3.9:1 on the axles total(vis 7.8:1 stock), at peak torque/TC stall should deliver roughly 17,035lb of thrust from the tires in 1st/mode. It should be able to drag 24K up a 45.2 degree Slope.

DS Torque 4712FT/LB. 78% of max…
Pretty sure you are going to run out of traction before you run out of torque…

Our experience, unloaded, is we always run out of traction before power. I don't recall a time power was even a consideration. Without lockers we must keep everything on the ground, old school off roading. With a bread basket locker I'd think EcoHubs are just what you need—

 

[AsstFireChief]

Our experience, unloaded, is we always run out of traction before power. I don't recall a time power was even a consideration. Without lockers we must keep everything on the ground, old school off roading. With a bread basket locker I'd think EcoHubs are just what you need—

Thank you. We will be 5-6000 lbs of water and firefighting equipment, so that was a concern. I think some of the folks here have helped by posting their experiences. Also appreciate the advice that this same combo was expected to haul up to 80k so our 25k doesn't need the gear reduction. We'll talk and probably vote on Monday as a department.

 

[dsanderlmtv]

“Before switching to Eco Hubs, I made sure to test my truck’s performance in soft sand for a baseline comparison. After the upgrade, I’ve noticed a slight loss in gear reduction, which does make the truck struggle a bit more in soft sand. That said, it’s not a dealbreaker. Once I air down and switch to ‘sand’ mode with the CTIS, the truck still digs itself out just fine. Overall, the Eco Hubs have been game changers and are worth the trade-off for the other benefits they bring. For anyone considering the upgrade, I’d say it’s still a solid choice.”


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