M35A3 rear wheel bearing packing, with photos

[michaelpilot1]

I retrieved my A3 in July and after putting a few hundred miles on it diff oil started leaking out of one of the inner wheel seals. After doing some research I found the bearings are not only very expensive but the inner bearings are packed at the factory by timken and the inner seal is part of the bearing and not available separately. I suppose if the seal fails the bearing is meant to be replaced. With inner bearings in the 800$ each range I decided to try to clean the seals and repack them and since there is not suppose to be diff oil in the bearings any way I would order new outer seals to keep the diff oil out of the bearings. I have attached a series of photos of the process, it seems the bearings, with the CTIS system, include bezzels that are part of the inner bearing race and protrude into an air seal in the inboard hub. The inner grease seal is driven (metal to metal seal) into a small lip that is machined into the outer bearing race with the inner part of the seal (also metal to metal seal) is driven onto a small lip machined into the inner race. I was conserned about damaging the seal by driving it off of the inner race so I left it attached to the race and packed the bearing from the inner side (sort of time consuming) then applied a light layer of aviation permatex to the outer perimeter of the seal and gently drove it back into the outer race. I hope the photos uploaded well. If you want higher quality photos PM me and I will try to forward the larger file photos. I followed the same procedure on all four rear wheels and in each case found the bearings loose and improperly adjusted.

 

[KsM715]

Try the pics again.

 

[Billy Bobbed]

$800 each really.

 

[michaelpilot1]

$800 each really.

The Inner Bearings were 970$ from one vendor and the outer was 480$ from the same vendor. There are not many options for vendors, I contacted Timken and was told that since the military still uses the bearing they could only sell it through authorized military suppliers but that thier cost on the inner bearing was 780$.

There is a company in Tennessee that has put together a bearing and seal set to return the axle to the M35A2 configuration without the CTIS. It costs 250$ per rear axle and 650$ for the front.

 

[gimpyrobb]

When you packed the bearing, did you try a grease needle? They come in handy for things like that.

 

[michaelpilot1]

When you packed the bearing, did you try a grease needle? They come in handy for things like that.

It would not fit into the inner bearing to cage space so I just pushed grease into the inner side until it uzzed out bellow the rollers.

 

[steve6x6x6]

I just bought and A3 and i need to drive it home - 1,350 miles. If i have any bearing problems i am screwed. I can not wait to tackle this issue, but it will be about a month. I know how the air gland works on the FMTV, need to change this.

 

[altoids]

Front is easy to change over to A2 style bearings (click link to thread post #7, click on pic links to see A3 to A2 style spindle). Did it on my front last October after I found out how proud people are of the CTIS style bearings. Did have issue with inner seal but it was part my fault (install of seal) & other half was cheaper style inner seal, info is in thread about my seal issue. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/67778-inner-m35a2-wheel-seal-problem.html
I did find a supplier who had the inner CTIS bearing for $50ea, so bought 6 even thou I only need 2

 

[renovate7]

Makes me happy I recently sold my A3 and am now, once again, driving an A2.

 

[michaelpilot1]

Front is easy to change over to A2 style bearings (click link to thread post #7, click on pic links to see A3 to A2 style spindle). Did it on my front last October after I found out how proud people are of the CTIS style bearings. Did have issue with inner seal but it was part my fault (install of seal) & other half was cheaper style inner seal, info is in thread about my seal issue. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/67778-inner-m35a2-wheel-seal-problem.html
I did find a supplier who had the inner CTIS bearing for $50ea, so bought 6 even thou I only need 2

The front bearings are next, where did you find inner bearings for 50$ I want to order 6 as well.

 

[michaelpilot1]

I just bought and A3 and i need to drive it home - 1,350 miles. If i have any bearing problems i am screwed. I can not wait to tackle this issue, but it will be about a month. I know how the air gland works on the FMTV, need to change this.

Good luck on the drive home, I drove mine about 300 miles before diff oil started leaking out one of the inner seals. The bearings did not seem to be damaged but all of the grease in all eight of the bearing was washed out by the diff oil.

 

[CobraCDR]

Ouch! What was the total bill by time you got finished up?

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Holy cow, so if i need to replace a bunch of bearings it cost more than the truck in the first place! Thanks for the pics, perfect timing I may have to do one myself.

 

[73m819]

I read the whole thread, see where the front can be changed to a2s, can the rears be also changed to a2s also, if you do not want CTI, seems like being the price of bearings, it would be worth it, a2 bearing and seals and a air hose to inflate a tire the old fashion way (also gives you the chance to look at the tire to check for damage)

 

[jstier]

I am a timken distrubitor, Send me the part# and I'll see what i can do.

 

[autigers35a3]

How much are NOS Rockwell axles going for these days?
Would it be cheaper to change out the entire axle?

 

[michaelpilot1]

The Timken bearings numbers are 395WE for the inner bearing and 392E for the outer bearings, I called Timken and was told the bearings could only be sold to one of thier military supplier. I called one and was give a very high price then made the desision to just try repacking them although Timken said the inner seal is not available seprately from the bearing and comes as an assembly prepacked. I carefully cleaned the seals repacked the bearings and reassembled all 6 wheels with new outer seals (readily available). The fronts were just like the rears and are now repacked, I made a 200 mile round trip to Western Georgia over the weekend with no problems. My plan is to take them back apart after a while and see if the grease is leaking out of the old inner seals and if so I will replace all of the bearings with A2 bearings which are inexpensive and easy to get. The conversion seams simple and about 250$ per rear drive axle, on the front they say the the hubs will have to be changed out with will increase the cost of the front axle to about 650$. There is an equipment company in Memphis Tenn. that is offering kits to do the change over or I will locate all of the A2 parts and price compare (I am inhearently a cheepskate). The change over will remove the CTIS but mine didn't work anyway and the replacement part was about a thousand $ with no guarantee if the rest of it worked. I purchased a glad hand adapter, hose and a nice tire inflation tool for less than 40$ and can put what ever air pressure in the tires that I want.

The whole job cost me the price of a tub of molly fortified wheel bearing grease and 4 outer wheel seals and some labor. If the seals leak grease the change over to A2 bearings will most likely cost about 1200 but the A2 bearings have a good reputation. Attached are two photos of the front and rear axle change over kits.

 

[jstier]

Since this is an assembly w seals there should be more numbers on it IE 902A1. Normally found on outer Race

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

What's the difference in the A2 to A3 bearings? Could the A2 be modifed or maybe another manufacturer would produce these cheaper? $700 a bearing is just crazy. Exactly what I'd expect though for a military sale.....

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

The Timken bearings numbers are 395WE for the inner bearing and 392E for the outer bearings, I called Timken and was told the bearings could only be sold to one of thier military supplier. I called one and was give a very high price then made the desision to just try repacking them although Timken said the inner seal is not available seprately from the bearing and comes as an assembly prepacked. I carefully cleaned the seals repacked the bearings and reassembled all 6 wheels with new outer seals (readily available). The fronts were just like the rears and are now repacked, I made a 200 mile round trip to Western Georgia over the weekend with no problems. My plan is to take them back apart after a while and see if the grease is leaking out of the old inner seals and if so I will replace all of the bearings with A2 bearings which are inexpensive and easy to get. The conversion seams simple and about 250$ per rear drive axle, on the front they say the the hubs will have to be changed out with will increase the cost of the front axle to about 650$. There is an equipment company in Memphis Tenn. that is offering kits to do the change over or I will locate all of the A2 parts and price compare (I am inhearently a cheepskate). The change over will remove the CTIS but mine didn't work anyway and the replacement part was about a thousand $ with no guarantee if the rest of it worked. I purchased a glad hand adapter, hose and a nice tire inflation tool for less than 40$ and can put what ever air pressure in the tires that I want.

The whole job cost me the price of a tub of molly fortified wheel bearing grease and 4 outer wheel seals and some labor. If the seals leak grease the change over to A2 bearings will most likely cost about 1200 but the A2 bearings have a good reputation. Attached are two photos of the front and rear axle change over kits.

Where did you get the outer wheel seals? And what adhesive did you use?