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master cylinder upgrade without proportioning valve?

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akron, ohio
has anyone done the Chevy C30 master cylinder upgrade on stock drumbrakes, and not used a proportioning valve? im in the process of this upgrade, but cannot locate the right proprtioning valve UglyTruckling suggests using. im wanting to know if i can go without installing a proportioning valve since the truck is being used strictly as an offroad truck at this time, and wont be street driven, or get above 25 mph...
 

nattieleather

Well-known member
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Cleveland, OH
Yeah what mkcoen said.... It's my understanding that proportioning valves are used when you have a mix of disk and drums. Since you said your all drums I think your good to go....I think.
 
270
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akron, ohio
Thanks guys, thats the answer i was wanting, and im really hoping your right. id think my worstcase scenerio is going to be an issue with the rear brakes locking up, but in the dirt, especially with the insane hills where we ride, id rather deal with that than the fronts locking. at least if its the rears, i should still be able to steer... heres the info i was referring to from Ugly Truckling, and as you can tell, they were not going on experiece with this setup, just theory...
We have not tried to install a proportioning valve as yet, however the following are our thoughts on this subject.
This master cylinder does not have residual pressure check valves built into it. This makes it perfect for 4 wheel disc brakes which do not require residual pressure. If you have the original drum brakes on all 4 wheels, your best bet is probably to purchase a proportioning valve from the chevy dealer for the 1980 1 ton truck that goes with this master cylinder. This should have the residual pressure check valves in it (provided that you specify to the parts man that your truck has drums on the front instead of discs).
This is an issue since i havent been able to locate that particular proportioning valve thru dealers, parts stores, or even aftermarker maunfacturers dealing in custom applications like Stainless Steel Brakes... wish me luck, and i'll update after testing, and hopefully successfully making it to Wellsville for the July 4th weekend, with my results... thanks again!!
 

SasquatchSanta

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I bought a C-30 master cylinder but haven't installed it yet. I also bought a VL3350 combination (proportioning) valve and two VL3710K residual pressure valves from Master Power Brakes in Mooresville NC www.mpbrakes.com 888-533-1199. I should note that the proportioning valve also has a Nr etched on the side: MPB16402.

I don't plan on installing disc brakes because to my knowledge there isn't anyone out there that supplies disc brakes for an M37 that are adequate for highway use. Before this comment starts a firestorm I'm only stating what I learned after calling around to several vendors about a year ago.

From what I learned talking to Master Power Brake's tech people it sounded like a proportioining valve is definately needed on drum brakes.

I personally would be hesitant to take any shortcuts on brakes based on the assumption that the vehicle will only be used off road and will not be driven over 25MPH. If it's a licensed??? what's to stop it from going on the highway either by you or the next owner.

Personally, I'd call MP Brakes and ask before I risked building a death trap for someone down the line. Just my 2-cents worth.
 

mkcoen

Well-known member
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From what I learned talking to Master Power Brake's tech people it sounded like a proportioining valve is definately needed on drum brakes.
My comments were based simply on knowing that switching from all drums to a disc/drum combination requires a proportioning valve. The all drum vehicles I have always worked on have been from the '50s and none, including the M37, had proportioning valves so I don't really understand why simply upgrading the master cylinder would require the installation of one.

Sounds to me like MP just wants to sell another part (and I used them for my '57 Ford disc/drum conversion so actually like their products).
 
270
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akron, ohio
i appreciate everyones info and advice. and Santa, this is actually just going to be a temporary situation to try and get it at least safely useable in the woods for the holiday weekend, and hopefully a few more trips there this summer. i hope to either do the discbrake upgrade, or possibly switch over to a D60/Corp. 14b. setup in the future. as far as going on the highway with this set-up, theres one very convincing thing thatll keep me from taking it there... ME !! and i dont really see it getting a new owner anytime soon. i have a problem with sentimental attachment to cars and bikes, even junk that doesnt run!:shock:
 

DAP

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Waxhaw, NC
I have disk brakes all around on my M37 from Ugly Truckling. I have no proportioning value. I can lock my brakes up any anytime. With my diesel conversion I can stop well from 65 MPH. Something I could never do with the stock brakes.
 

Cav Trooper

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Hamilton, Ohio
I installed the dual chamber master cylinder, Only problems I've had is the fact the PO put silicone brake fluid in the system, all components were new when he did this. I didn't want to have to replace everything again so, I stuck with silicone fluid, I hate it, soft pedal etc. Other than the silicone fluid issue, I had a semi-firm pedal at about 4" travel. I startd researching and found with drum brakes, I needed 10 psi check valves, this info was from the streetrod guys. I installed the check valves and don't see much difference. I do have brakes and they work ok, but, I still have a long pedal travel to engage. They don't need bled, I've bled them several times and they don't pump up as if there was air in the system. I've adjusted and readjusted all of the shoes, they are where they are supposed to be. I've sanded the shoes and drums to break any glaze, still have the same results. People tell me that I don't need discs with the stock engine but, I'm leaning toward them, just to get a better pedal feel an sense of safety. If I go to discs, I'll replace the hoses and all of the seals and master cylinder and flush all the hard lines and go back to DOT4. Big PIA. Wish there was somebody around this area to compare notes with. I need someone else with an M37 in the Cincy/Dayton area to get a feel for their brake pedal. I drove these when I and they were in service and don't remember the brakes being like this.
 

DAP

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I am using silicone fluid in my system. No problems. Someone told me the stock brakes are fine if you adjust them regualrly (like every week) if you use it as a daily driver. I had a friend that did that but he like to tinker as much as drive. My personal vote is go 4 wheel disk
 

WolfWalking

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Arlington, WA
Did I miss one important issue somewhere in the post, if so I stand corrected. But heres what I wanted to say, drum brakes require a couple of pounds pressure at all times when the brakes are not pressed, its to maintain the pressure against the shoes and the springs, disc brakes don't require any pressure as you want the pucks to slacken off the disc. If you have a combination, disc/drum, the drum side needs the pressure. I am told you can buy the part that maintains the pressure part, just fit it inline on the drum side plumbing..
 

greentoys

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byron, minnesota
Just to stir the pot a little.
When you replace the master cylinder you need to keep in mind the ratio of the master cylinde dipacemnet per stroke to the wheel cylinder volumn needed. ( cylinder bore diameter )
I found that out when I replaced the master with one that was too small. I thought that i was having trouble bleeding the brakes, but was really running short of fluid to push the shoes firmly into the drums. I went to a bigger master cyl and things are fine now.
And yes, you need check valves on drum brake systems, no proportioning valves.
Some proportioning valves on Disc / drum combos may contain check vaves for the rear drums instead of in the master cyl. though. Confusing enough ?
Ray
 
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Squirt-Truck

Master Chief
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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DAP,
Are your brakes boosted?
Disk need significantly more pressure to stop the same which is one reason that disk/drum combinations need proportion valves.
 

WolfWalking

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Arlington, WA
One point that hasn't been raised about the proportioning valve. 70% of your braking in in the front of your vehicle, the front loads up, and the back lightens up. Yes, even big vehicles. Newer cars have this taken into consideration for braking needs. Large front disc, smaller rear disc or drum. When was the last time you needed to replace the front and rear brakes at the same time. I seem to always find I only need front pads on my POV.

A proportioning valve would allow you to adjust your braking so in heavy braking you don't lock up the rear brakes as easily as you would when applying heavy (i.e. panic) pressure to the brakes. Skidding tires means you're taking longer to stop then you should. As long as the ties are rolling during braking, you're utilizing maximum braking potential.

Also, because of this load and lighten scenerio, there is no need for rear disc brakes, its overkill. 2cents
 
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